Lotus Trivia Thread

[Martin]

After the discussion of who designed the Lotus Esprit X-180 I am curious to see if there are underlying facts that go along with the answer to this question:

Who penned the Lotus Elite?

[WheelSpin]

Colin Chapman?

[Kimbers]

Which one?

The Wedge shaped Elite from 1971-2 was designed by 2 men mostly, Ollie Winterbottom (my god father) did the exterior design and Mike Kimberley did the Engineering design (he was project leader on the car as a whole so had input throughout). though there was a team working on it to get it to production. Guigaro had a small input in that he designed the interior. It was this relationship that got Colin and Mike to visit him at the Turin Motorshow and start discussing the Esprit.

[Martin]

That is pretty damn interesting, I thought it was more simple but I should have known :)

Well that means that you are up next.

[Brian Skeoch]

it sure is interesting.... great response... great question too.

[slipstream]

Here's one...

The tail light lenses on 91 and 92 Esprits...possibly other Stevens' era cars as well....from what other car do they originate?

[Al B]

Toyota supra, I believe.

[WayneB]

The X180's tailight clusters were actually sourced from the 1985-87 Toyota Corolla.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/BTCCToyotaCorrolla.jpg

Heres the X-180 clay showing the tailights
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/Lotus20Esprit20006.jpg

Oliver Winterbottom has worked at many car companies besides Lotus.

He started at Austin (Mini Clubman), went to Jaguar (stillborn F type),
then Lotus (Twin Cam Europa , Elite 504 and Eclat,worked with Giugiaro to productionise the Esprit design) Freelance for TVR (Tasmin), back to Lotus(Excel,stillborn M90 Elan) , then GM USA (Oldsmobile Touring editions) ,and finally freelance (Norfolk Automotive). I believe he is in China ATM and now specialises in vehicle safety and design.

These are photos of the M90 Elan concept,left photo Colin Spooner, Mike Loasby,Mike Kimberley, Colin Chapman and Oliver Winterbottom, the photo on the right Oliver Winterbottom and Mike Kimberley.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/M90Elan.jpg

[Martin]

The one on the right looks like the TVR Tasmin.......?

[4re308]

This is a great thread!

[Al B]

I think Wayne B is correct and it was a Corolla, not a Supra.
Good one Wayne.

[S4Simon]

Yep - Trust Wayne.

He's the wise man of the forums.

[WayneB]

The one on the right looks like the TVR Tasmin.......?

Actually Martin they are both the same clay model , but it was recovered in silver Dynoc (and fitted with the Toyota alloy wheels) The resemblence to the Tasmin is probably because the TVR Tasmin was the last car Oliver Winterbottom had designed before the Lotus M90.

Lotus did build a running prototype of the M90 Elan, it was a convertable/ targa and used a Toyota Celica 1.6 DOHC engine and transmission (and a lot of other Toyota parts)

http://python.rice.edu/~arb/arbmotorsports/arbmotors_2003/Images_2003/arb_03_jpegs/elan_m90.jpg

http://python.rice.edu/~arb/arbmotorsports/Images/m90front.gif

http://python.rice.edu/~arb/arbmotorsports/Images/m90top.gif

The project was re-named X100 after Colin Chapmans death and the British car auctions (David Wickens) takeover of Lotus in 1983, but was eventually dropped and was later replaced with the FWD Elan project (with GM-Isuzu), apparently causing Oliver Winterbottom to leave Lotus for the final time (to be replaced with Peter Stevens)

The prototype M90/X100 is still in existance and I believe it is now owned by ARB Motorsports in Houston, Texas.

[Al B]

It is presently residing 4 blocks down the street at ARB's garage. I helped him put the body back on a while back and there has been some progress since then but the other ARB has quite a busy schedule and does a little bit at a time.
The car is looking very nice and is still in the original color scheme. Should be around in the very near future.

Al R. B
the other ARB

[Kimbers]

I think Wayne B is correct and it was a Corolla, not a Supra.
Good one Wayne.

He is correct. Toyota stopped making the lights about 7 years ago and Lotus bought all their obsolete stock. Hence Lotus is the only place, in the world, where this light cluster is now available. At last years Stoneleigh Parts fair Lotus dropped the price from £130 to £40 to move some of them and many owners bought them for spares as once they are gone, they are gone forever!

[slipstream]

Interior door handles in the Europa came from a....?

[WayneB]

After the discussion of who designed the Lotus Esprit X-180 I am curious to see if there are underlying facts that go along with the answer to this question:

Who penned the Lotus Elite?

I almost forgot to mention this, but as you now already know Oliver Winterbottom did the exterior styling of the Type 75 Elite, but the interior was actually designed by Giugiaro.

This is a pic I found of its distinctive dash, with its upside down mounted mirror!(this one has been modified with wood inlays)

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/RichardNorman/RichardNorman-D.jpg

[slipstream]

And the front bumper from the Europa came from.....?

[slipstream]

I think Wayne B is correct and it was a Corolla, not a Supra.
Good one Wayne.

I believe that for a year or so, the Corolla and Supra used the same tail light lenses, and the same as the Esprit.

No? Yes?

[Brian Skeoch]

the silver car on the right lives in Texas. Its owner, Dr Andy Barron is a Genetic instructor at Rice University. he is a great race car driver too. he owns a pair of Lotus 7's, a 94 S4 , a 88 Turbo and a 2001 Lotus V 8.

he acquired the Lotus concept pictured here several years ago. he is a nice guy. he comes here to Road Atlanta every spring with his yellow Lortus 7 shich he races in HSR.

[Kimbers]

[QUOTE=WayneB;491]I almost forgot to mention this, but as you now already know Oliver Winterbottom did the exterior styling of the Type 75 Elite, but the interior was actually designed by Giugiaro.

[QUOTE]

Come on Wayne. Now you're just copying me! See my post on P1 which clearly states: "Guigaro had a small input in that he designed the interior. It was this relationship that got Colin and Mike to visit him at the Turin Motorshow and start discussing the Esprit."

Please bow before my timely knowledge (24hours before you to be precise!!):p

[Brian Skeoch]

very interesting info. there is one Elite that lives here in the Atlanta area. I believe its a 1976 or 77 model. It is white with tan interior. 3 years ago it had a frame off restoration. the leather is PERFECT. in fact, its the most amount of leather I have ever seen in a car.

it runs well and the paint was done just right..

I actually like the old Elite.

this is such a great web page.

[WayneB]

And the front bumper from the Europa came from.....?

It was originally used on the British Ford Anglia 105E.
http://www.ncvc.org.uk/images/vehicles/SPE1.jpg

The interesting thing is Ron Hickman, who did the styling on the Lotus Elite (S1) Elan, Europa and Elan+2 actually was also part of the team that styled the 105E Anglia at Ford of Great Britain Styling in Dagenham.

It all started with the original Lotus Elite, who's concept was originally drawn up by Peter Kirwin-Taylor who was actually Colin Chapmans accountant at the time.

Moonlighting Ford of Great Britain stylist Jonathon Frayling and clay modeller(at the time) Ron Hickman did the 1/4 scale Elite model at night with expensive modeling clay that was apparently (borrowed) from Ford . Frank Costin (moonlighting from De Haviland aircraft) helped them sort out the cars aerodynamics.

Jonathon Frayling and Ron Hickman were both soon after given full time jobs at Lotus, Frayling eventually went to Lola where he did the T70 (working with Jim Clark of Specialised Mouldings), Hickman left Lotus after the Europa , and as everyone knows designed the Black and Decker Workmate and now has more money than god as a result.:D

[WayneB]

[QUOTE=WayneB;491]I almost forgot to mention this, but as you now already know Oliver Winterbottom did the exterior styling of the Type 75 Elite, but the interior was actually designed by Giugiaro.

[QUOTE]

Come on Wayne. Now you're just copying me! See my post on P1 which clearly states: "Guigaro had a small input in that he designed the interior. It was this relationship that got Colin and Mike to visit him at the Turin Motorshow and start discussing the Esprit."

Please bow before my timely knowledge (24hours before you to be precise!!):p

Tony, you dont think I still actually read your posts do you mate?;)

(I will in future I promise):rolleyes:

Wayne bows to your superior knowledge etc.:p

[Brian Skeoch]

wow.. this is great information.

[Martin]

No kidding, man this is turning into the ultimate question and answer forum, I love it!
Here is a question for you as I ran across this info this morning. What was the 1st Lotus to not be offered in kit form (in other words you had to buy it as a complete car with drivetrain) ?

[WayneB]

The Lotus +2 S in 1968 (which was a luxury version of the +2)

http://www.sixtiescity.com/Transport/Images/TRAN047.jpg

[Martin]

Damnit Wayne, how the hell am I ever supposed to stump you? :rolleyes:

Ok, lets hear a trivia question from Wayne now. (Watch it be something like what did Colin Chapman have for dinner on his 35th birthday?)

[WayneB]

OK, try this one (whilst we are still on the subject of the Elan +2):)

Who designed the Elan +2s tailight clusters?

http://www.lotuselan.net/uploads/2s_1_11.jpg

[Kimbers]

They're not Matra Simca ones are they?

Hang on...wasn't Guigaro was it?

[slipstream]

OK, try this one (whilst we are still on the subject of the Elan +2):)

Who designed the Elan +2s tailight clusters?

http://www.lotuselan.net/uploads/2s_1_11.jpg

Don't know WHO designed them, but the tail light bodies were from a Jaguar E Type, the lens were a Lucas part number item. Parking lamps from a Triumph TR250.

Source: GGLC Parts cross reference chart on their website.

[WayneB]

http://www.geocities.com/trevorsparrow/elanplus2/oeh2.jpghttp://www.alfaholics.com/admin/uploaded_images/ba696edcf690ccdb1bab4755a0e0d081.JPG
The tailamp clusters that were originally used on the 1967 +2 were in fact Carello units from the 1963 Alfa-Romeo Giulia GT , which were designed by Giugiaro (as was the whole car), so Giugiaros influence came at Lotus alot earlier than the Esprit. Lotus didnt adopt the Jaguar Etype series 2 rear tailights on the +2 until later on.(1969) (which I believe were done by Oliver Winterbottom when he was at Jaguar)!

[slipstream]

http://www.geocities.com/trevorsparrow/elanplus2/oeh2.jpghttp://www.alfaholics.com/admin/uploaded_images/ba696edcf690ccdb1bab4755a0e0d081.JPG
The tailamp clusters that were originally used on the 1967 +2 were in fact Carello units from the 1963 Alfa-Romeo Giulia GT , which were designed by Giugiaro (as was the whole car), so Giugiaros influence came at Lotus alot earlier than the Esprit. Lotus didnt adopt the Jaguar Etype series 2 rear tailights on the +2 until later on.(1969) (which I believe were done by Oliver Winterbottom when he was at Jaguar)!

FOUL! Wayne, when you asked the question, you showed the white +2, which does not have the Carello units but the Jag units!:)

[Martin]

Hmmnn, the plot thickens!

[WayneB]

Yes I did didnt I.:eek:

I assure you I didnt intentionally do that to throw you off the scent.:)

[WayneB]

They're not Matra Simca ones are they?

Hang on...wasn't Guigaro was it?

Bloody Hell, I missed your post again Tony!:confused:

No they were not Matra-Simca ones, and you spelt Giugiaro wrong (again):o

You got any more Elite trivia your willing to reveal, and hows about getting MJK on here to bless the place!:p

[Kimbers]

I knew I would be half right at least. Wasn't far off though with the Simca offer.

Ok, let me think of something even you won't know.......

Where was the majority of the Testing done on the Europa Twin Cam? And by whom?

[Martin]

This is complete shot in the dark:

On public streets around the factory and the testing was done by Colin Chapman himself.........? :o :)

[WayneB]

Wasnt that done in the Italian Alps by Tony Rudd and your dad?

[Kimbers]

Wasnt that done in the Italian Alps by Tony Rudd and your dad?

Ha Beat you!!....it was the French AND italian Alps.......:p

Dammit have I told that story elsewhere?

[Al B]

You may have tipped your hand on the Esprit forum. :rolleyes:

[Brian Skeoch]

Kimbers. I know that Roger is still around there at Lotus, but do you know what happend with Colin or Alan ?

tell Mr. Kimberly that Doc says hello . he won again in the X 180 R last weekend here at Road Atlanta. Just like tghe old days .

Brian Turbo Esprit / Atlanta

[WayneB]

Ha Beat you!!....it was the French AND italian Alps.......:p

Dammit have I told that story elsewhere?

Yes, you mumbled it the other night after you got drunk and passed out.;)

(ps still waiting patiently for your dads forthcoming book)

[Kimbers]

Brian,

Colin Spooner has his own company, Chapman Designs. Alan? What was his surname and I should know.

Wayne

:p

I don't drink and you know it!

All right then try this one..............Name 3 of the Becker family who are and have been instrumental in the company either now or in the past.....and if you can tell me which vehicle my brother and I did all the testing for I'll give you a bonus!

[Brian Skeoch]

thanks. Alan Nobbs was one of the guys at Lotus UK who helped with the X180 R project along side Becker back then. he helped with dialing in the rear suspension for the race car back from 1991-1994.

thanks.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

you and your brother worked on the M100 project ?

[Kimbers]

Nope, That was after our time and Dads baby.

[4re308]

This is a fantastic thread! You guys really know Lotus!! I'm honored to be on this site with you guys. :)

[WayneB]

Lotus Carlton /Omega?

[Brian Skeoch]

Mitch, Kimbers is the son of the great Mike Kimberly, Lotus CEO.... it is an honor to have such royalty in this thread. Martin, Mike Kimberly gave the " okay " for Doc to run the race team here back in 91 with the old Lotu Sport.. Mike Kimberly shouldnt be knighted by the Queen herself.

thats when Doc got Murry to drive with he, Bo, Paul, Scott and Pilgrim. if that didnt happen when it did then me, and most of us wouldnt even have the opportunity to own one of these Esprit's.

Martin, nice job with this page.
Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

what ever happened to the one and only Indy car that Lotus built back in 84 or 85 ? There was one built, where does it reside ?

who designed that thing ? It has a little bit of a March 84 C look to it . did theMarch designers have anything to do with the Lotus Indy car that was approved for CART racing ?

[Brian Skeoch]

You, your brother and your dad should be working on my 2010 Esprit....

I cant wait to see the real deal.

Brian
88 turbo Atlanta

[4re308]

that is vastly impressive to have you and kimbers here! I love this site!

[Martin]

Agreed, I am thankful for having you all on here. This is exactly why these internet communities are so great, because everyone either wants to share something or wants to know something. Thanks everyone!

[Brian Skeoch]

yeah, Mike Kimberly saved lotus .

[Brian Skeoch]

check this out. this was from last year at the Mitty. this show aired 13 times in 2006. the red Esprit in the last session is yours truely.

http://www.espritv8.com/multimedia/movies/scrlotus.wmv

[Martin]

Thanks Brian. I've been wanting to see that for a while but I didn't know where to find it on the web.

[Kimbers]

you and your brother worked on the M100 project ?

Ok, the answers were: The Beckers at lotus are: Roger Becker, R&D Director and ex James Bond 007 Driver (he was Lotus's top test driver around the 70's and the Film company hired him (Twice) to do all the test driving in the 007 movies), Matt Becker who's his son and very Senior in Engineering and I think it's Chrisy who is his daughter and in Marketing.

Me and my brother did all the test driving for a well know Lotus developed vehicle.....the Sinclair C5!!:D Yep it was our fault!

[WayneB]

Heres a rare photo of my good friend Prince Anthony of Wyndham down at the pub (with the proles):p

http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/princecharles_080502.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

how is Roger Beckers health these days ?

[Brian Skeoch]

Roger was really good with that set up of the X180 R. he was at the other end of a fax machine that was being used in the race car hauler and would help the team dial in the car for each specific track. after hours, and by fax machine ..

good times for sure.

[Kimbers]

Roger recovered from a spell of Cancer and is back in the driving seat at Engineering thanks.

Funny, just got off the phone from Dad (he's just landed after a hairy flight from the far east) and he was thrilled that Doc is still around. He passes on his regards and has asked that Doc gets in touch especially as he's still driving and flying the Lotus flag!

[Brian Skeoch]

please check out the video of Murry being interviewed about the old X180 R days when Lotus waxed the old Porsche's from the Brumos stables.

Just as god intended.

Brian

[Martin]

Hey Brian....throw out a trivia question for these Lotus nuts. See if you can stump them ;)

[clockwork]

I think oliver winterbottom did the tasmin and later wedges at TVR

[WayneB]

Your dead right Oliver Winterbottom did design the wedge shaped TVR's as a freelance designer.:)

He originally started his career at Austin where he did the Mini Clubman facelift, moved on to Jaguar (Jaguar F type concept), then went to Lotus (Europa Twin-cam facelift, Elite, Eclat, productionised the Esprit concept with Giugiaro), went freelance (TVR) back to Lotus (Excel, Elan M90 concept) , then went to Detroit to work for GM(Oldsmobile touring editions) , back to England (freelance with his Norfolk Automotive Engineering company)
Apparently he is currently in China working on mainly safety /engineering issues.

I'm sure his godson (Tony Kimberley) will set me straight If any of my facts are wrong!

[Martin]

Alright, lets drop this into 2nd gear and step on it.

Brian give us something!!!! :D

[Kimbers]

Wayne,

As always you are spot on.

Martin, Trivia for you all......Wayne HUSH!.....

Why did Guigaro call the Polizia on CC and MJK?

And you're bonus for 2 extra points....Wayne excepted.....what chassis did the Esprit Prototype use?

[WayneB]

Alright mate, I will keep me big gob shut.;)

Heres a pic of a bit of the chassis though.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/Dscf0027.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

who was the last driver to win a factory Lotus race in the states ???? name the car, the team, the engine builder and what the driver is up to these days. ?

this is a good one..

I also need the year of the race and the place of the event.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

this is a trick question because the driver is not American....

[Brian Skeoch]

I am not even sure if Mr Kimberly will remember this trvia question that I just asked.. ...

[Martin]

Alright to clear up the confusion of 2 questions floating on this thread at the same time, I would answer both right now. But I can't. :confused:

So, if you two can do it......Brian answer Kimber's question, and Kimber answer Brian's question. Or else I'll have to let Wayne loose and answer all of them ;):D

[jimmybondi]

Wayne,

As always you are spot on.

Martin, Trivia for you all......Wayne HUSH!.....

Why did Guigaro call the Polizia on CC and MJK?

And you're bonus for 2 extra points....Wayne excepted.....what chassis did the Esprit Prototype use?

'cause they got lost while driving around in Bella Italia...? :D

[Kimbers]

Come on Guys you can do better than this!!!

Jimmy is half right but it's not the whole story.

In regards to SCCA racing I'm stumped but will ask the old man.

[Brian Skeoch]

the esprit prototype chassis was the Europa chassis ?

[Brian Skeoch]

the answer to my question was

Andy Pilgrim
1993
Phoenix International Racway
engine builder was Arnie Johnson
Crew Chief was Ed Wheeler
Andy is currenlty a factory GM driver in ALMS and Rolex, and will from time to time drive in Nextel Cup.

Brian

[WayneB]

this is a trick question because the driver is not American....

Brian,

Andy Pilgrim is a U.S. citizen, so doesn't that make him an American?:confused:

I think you threw us a curved ball there!:D

[Autocross7]

Yes, it does. He's American.

I'll have a go...

What trick did Mario Andretti employ to "prove' to Collin Chapman that his 'under development' Lotus 77 (a pretty JPS livery aside) was not stiff enough?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Japan ?

[Brian Skeoch]

that type of F 1 car had the slotted side skirts that would fall down when actuated from a lever on the side pods ?

didnt they initiate that affect at the Japanese race that year ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Yes, it does. He's American.

I'll have a go...

What trick did Mario Andretti employ to "prove' to Collin Chapman that his 'under development' Lotus 77 (a pretty JPS livery aside) was not stiff enough?


Cameron

I don't know what Andretti's trick was, but Ronnie Peterson's was to quit Lotus and join March.:)

[Brian Skeoch]

I love March cars ... the 87 C is my favorite..

[Brian Skeoch]

interesting point. The 1969 March F 2 car that Ronnie Peterson drove now lives here in GA. It is owned and operated by Andy Gilberg of Teknacon Motorsports.

Andy has 3 March F 1 cars, a 87 C Indy car and a Royale F 3 car.

check out his pictures at www.marchives.com

the Ronnie Peterson car is MINT... It happens to be the very first March car ever made. its a really neat shop over there at Andy's.

sorry for the non lotus content.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

I was wrong... I just spoke with Andy Pilgrim and he confirmed it was mid October of 1994 when he won that race for Lotu Sport at PIR.

Andy is a great guy and has told me time and time again that those old Lotus days are some of the best EVER that he can remember. they pasted the Burmos Porsch'es... Just as god intended.



Brian

[Autocross7]

As the story is told by Mario Andretti...

He could feel the car flexing around the seat to the point just getting in the car made the cockpit walls angle in. Colin Chapman, demanding the car be light wt, stated that the car was plenty stiff and a bit of an argument came up.

Mario Andretti, already to point out that you could "see through the damn thing when paint was not on it", dragged Colin chapman out the the trackside only to find that since the last test stint the car had ben painted. He then taped a bit of string tight across the cockpit opening, climbed in, and then pointed out that the string was touching his thighs!

Colin Champan reportedly ranted on for a bit and then ordered that the car be made stiffer, but it could not be heavier than "he wanted"... he did not say how heavy that was...

As we know today, once more fully developed, the car was capable of winning with the right driver - Andretti - who called the car a number of unpleasant names during the development and race season.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

oh man thats cool... great stuff about those F 1 days.. Mario coud drive a rollercoaster through a parking lot if he had to.

[Autocross7]

I was wrong... I just spoke with Andy Pilgrim and he confirmed it was mid October of 1994 when he won that race for Lotu Sport at PIR.

Andy is a great guy and has told me time and time again that those old Lotus days are some of the best EVER that he can remember. they pasted the Burmos Porsch'es... Just as god intended.



Brian

And with any luck, Mr. Kimberly will realize the fan base and marketing show and enter the new Esprit as a works car in the ALMS. Ford, although not officially announced, is putting the GT back into production and running GT1 in 2009/10 to compete with the Vetts. There was also a little rumo flying at Road atlanta this year that Bugatti is looking to build a little brother car to the Veyron and possibly put it into a GT1 or GT2 class in ALMS...

As Porsche and Ferrari already run, wouldn't it be a dream for the best if Lotus, Ford, and Bugatti all got in the mix again?

Or at least Lotus!!!

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

2010 is too far to wait... it may be sooner..

[Brian Skeoch]

if anything like that happens it will be in a support series such as Rolex Koni or ALMS Speed GT series..

I can think of 2 local drivers with some lotus heritage that may be tapped to enter such a venture as drivers......

[jimmybondi]

Come on Guys you can do better than this!!!

Jimmy is half right but it's not the whole story.

In regards to SCCA racing I'm stumped but will ask the old man.
Sorry, this was just before I left home for work this morning ;)

The chassis was a longer 'Ropa chassis IIRC
and Colin and your dad were test driving the prototype and got lost on their way back to ItalDesign... so Giorgetto got nervous and called the Police?

[Kimbers]

Ha! I gotta stop yapping to you LEF boys!!

Yes the Esprit Prototype was based on an extended Europa TC Chassis, but only on the show car.

And yes Dad and Colin went to see GG and tried his one of a kind show car prototype, but it wasn't a Lotus to begin with I believe it was a Porsche or VW originally. GG let them take it into Turin where they promtly got hopelessly lost. When they got back GG had called the Polizia as the car was valued at about 1/2 mill I believe (it was totally unique).

So you seem to all be very interested in SCCA racing so heres one even Wayne won't know.

Who were Lotus trying to woo to drive their car in SCCA. I'll give you a clue. He was an up and coming actor who's huge now and was exceedingly fast in a race car. He'd never driven professionally tho.????

Bet that'll get you!

[Brian Skeoch]

some of us are into SCCA becuase thats the only Lotus racing we get over here in the states. I am just a tad too young to have gone to Indy to watch the Lotus type 29's and type 38's run at the Speedway.

its either Tom Cruz or Bobby Caradeen ?

[Brian Skeoch]

Kimbers, those X180 R's are faster now with the Hoosiers than they were with the Bridgestones.. we run them with FAT rears and the car sticks like a cat on carpet.

[Kimbers]

Jeez I give up.

Yes it was Tom Cruise. He was so quick whilst driving for Days of Thunder that even with little practice he would have been top 10 in a Nascar race. Dad happened to read this and tried to woo him to drive with paul Newman, Bobby Caradine etc. Wasn't into it tho apparantly.

[Brian Skeoch]

fun stuff.

I hear that Bobby Caradine primised a bunch of money to Lotu Sport which didnt happen.

I tried to get Newman in the old X180 R at the spring SCCA raced 2 year ago when we didt thatepisode on speed tv.

I went roiund and roubnd with Pauls PR gal Kathy Lauderback at Newman Haas and we almost had him but he ended up doing some champ car reuinion with the old 1992 Lola Newman Haas team up in Elkart.

fun stuff.

Cruz was good but ended up in Trans AM for a couple seasons. and then didnt he drive for Bob Sharp and the Nissans ?

[WayneB]

Tom Cruise?

Never heard of him!:p

His carear would have definately got a boost by driving the X180-R:D

The car Colin Chapman and Mike Kimberley were lost in Turin with was the 1970 Italesign Porsche Tapiro (not sure weather the model was with them):p

Sadly it caught fire a few years ago and only a burnt mangled wreck remains.

If you look at the base of the a pillar, you can see where Oliver Winterbottom got a cue for the Elite.:)

http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/444596.jpg

[Autocross7]

Looks like this car gave way to several other design ques as well. It has a bit of Fiero on the front end and the rear, at least from this angle, looks a little bit like the BMW M1?

Cameron

[Martin]

All I practically see is Maserati Bora.

[Autocross7]

I also agree with that there seems to be so Maser in the design, but I have to look hard to see the car at all, really. It's right behind that girl with the long blond hair...


Cameron

[Martin]

Right ;)

[Brian Skeoch]

new question.

when Lotus went to Indy with Clark and Gurney, who was the put crew that manned Clarks team ?

the Indy regulars had never seen such quick pit work and couldnt believe Lotus was in and ot of the pits in less than 30 seconds.

name where the Pit crew came from.

Brian

[WayneB]

I know this one.

The Wood Brothers.

They are ledgendary NASCAR team owners and were capable of the fastest and most coreographed pit stops in motor racing , they invented the current style of pit stop and I believe they still field the number 21 car.:)

[Brian Skeoch]

yep.. good answer man.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

whoopsyouguys, wrong by two years...

I think the correct answer includes Jim Endruweit, Jim Gardner and Pete Weismann. There are at least two more pit crew members from the Clark and Gurney year. I'm gonna guess they're all from Great Britain.
The Wood Brothers were from Stuart Virginia.
Hey! Let's get Dan Gurney to join this site! He'd love it. I think I may have the Elan Lotus gave him to drive on the streets of Indy in May of 1963...

Question, who did Bobby Johns introduce to Team Lotus?

[WayneB]

I guess we are all kinda right then, but Lotus did win Indy in 1965 when they used the Woods in the pits.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/CCIndy.jpg

[TWO OLD ELANS]

...we are all kinda right?

[WayneB]

Question, who did Bobby Johns introduce to Team Lotus?

I don't really know, but I will take a stab at it and guess Vince Granatelli from STP, or Mario Andretti.

p.s. I was 6 years old in 1965.

http://www.legendsofnascar.com/indy4-large.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

the Wood brotehrs is correct.

[Brian Skeoch]

a new trivia question.

in 67, AJ Foyt copied the Lotus 38 but called it his own creation. what did he call this car ?

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Was that Coyote a copy? What happened to the Lotuses after the race season?

[Brian Skeoch]

yep, the Coyote. remember in 67 he was in the lead and came out of turn 4 and saw a thick cloud of smoke from wrecking cars. AJ said he dropped it into 3rd gear, closed his eyes and stood on the gas. he knew he would win and if it required him hitting a car he would shove it over the start finish line with him .

I love that stuff.

what happened to them ?

[Brian Skeoch]

the few 38's that were built have scattered all over the place. I believe there were only 5 made and a guy in Indianpolis has been restoring 2 of them

the Barber museum has a Lotus 29 that Gurney ran at Indy.

Jim Clarks 29 is at the Ford museum in Indy. the other 29 is at the Indy museum and I believe Parnelli Jones has another one of the 38's.

one was toasted . I think the other 4 are accounted for.

[clockwork]

Not sure if the timeline for Oliver winterbottoms involvement is correct as Tasmins use europa rear suspension parts and europas pre-date Tasmins.Clockwork:confused:

[WayneB]

I had a look at my post Clockwork, and I did write he was at Lotus doing the Europa T/C and Elite/Eclat before going freelance and doing the TVR Tasmin:)

[Brian Skeoch]

I was wrong, it looks like 8 of the type 38's were built.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

My big Lotus book says there were ten type 38's. As Lotus guys we should probably say, "yeah, 8 or 10 and we're sticking to it."
My question was poorly worded, I was referring to those Lotuses just after the team season, where did they go the next year? I've read that Ford got them, and Parnelli and AJ and their buddies then got them, renamed them the "Whatever $$$ I Can Get" Special and those cars continued to run the USAC circuit for many years... sold from one team to another. AJ Foyt raced Indy in '65 in a Lotus, and for how many years after that? (I don't know the answer.)

[Brian Skeoch]

Hmm. I dont know. I will find out tho. I will call Donald Davidson at the speedway museum. he will let me know and then I will respond.

Donald is the man.

I wouldnt think they would be competitive after 1968. by then they were all longer with completely different chassis and tub's.

I will ask Donald.

Brian

[WayneB]

I have a trivia question for you.:)

As we all know, the JPS Lotus Grand Prix cars were always immaculately presented, with shint jet black paint and gold graphics(lettering) that was signwritten on.(painted not decalled) :cool:

Who was the teams signwriter?:confused:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/lotus72006at6.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

my gosh thats a tough question... a good one tho. I wished I knew the answer. great question..

[clockwork]

I had a look at my post Clockwork, and I did write he was at Lotus doing the Europa T/C and Elite/Eclat before going freelance and doing the TVR Tasmin:)

Sorry,reading and not thinking:) Clockwork

[Brian Skeoch]

new trivia question.

who drove the Lotus F 5000 car here in the states back in the 70's. It had American iron but built on a Lotus chassis. Nice tall rear wing. Tons of power and the most amazing V 8 sound.

this question is worth bonus points. the bonus question is.. where is this car currently located ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

Now this is a bit of a trick question as there were several drivers for "this" car in the 1970's and I think that there may have been only a hand full built - some I know were sold as kits. I'm not even sure how many were registered with F1 if any?

The actual purpose built car (supposed to be the Lotus 68') I believe showed up in '69 (or possibly early 70') with a Boss 302 motor with Mario Andretti slotted as the driver (at Sebring)...

...but, I think it was Goerge Wiestien or Wintersteen or SP???... that debut the car in Riverside, CA for the first time with a Chevy V8 power plant. This was in 1970 (year I was born) for a team owned by Dick Smothers (Smothers Brothers). I know that some of these cars also ran other ford V8 motors over time and that Lotus did not stay in the F5000 arena for long - but provided customer cars for longer than they stayed in as a factory team. I remember one modified a bit running in Can-Am in the 80's, but I am stretching way into the shaddows of memory for that bit of info... feel free to correct me as I could be remembering what I "want" to remember.

At any rate, I know I have seen one of these cars at Barber Motorsports Park in the museum, and there was one at Indy a couple years ago, but I do not know where the permant home might be today? If all you guys would send me some money, I in could track one down, put it my garage... and we would all know where it is located!:)

That's pretty much what I know...
Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Correct.

I was looking for the Smothers name.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

the car sits at the Barber museum in Birmingham.

[Autocross7]

After getting signed for some photo shoots for adds back in the day, Mario got some minor burns on his face etc and did not want to appear in the photo adds... Who did appear in the photo adds (remember this was before the photo shop days) and "fooled" the not knowing public?

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

his twin brother Aldo. it was May of 1969. his brother Aldo lives in Brownsburg Indiana and is the father of John Andretti. age 43.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

those minor burns were caused when he looped the Lotus all wheel drive car and he took in a face full of buring fuel.

isnt that when his race engineer Cint Brauner drug out that old Lola " Hawk " , painted up with STP colors, through on a oil cooler the size of a barn door and they let him drive that car which he ended up winning the race with ?

and, he did it with 20 laps of zero oil pressure. ?

I think thats how the story goes.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

I just hung up with Mr. Davidson at the speedway museum. He knows of only 2 type 38's that Lotus built in 1965. Ford Museum claims to have the Bobby Johns car and the other is in private hands.

Walter Goodwin of Indianapolis has 2 of the type 34's in restoration.

Barber has a type 29 that was Mr. Gurney's and the speedwya museum has the other type 29.

the Coyote was claimed to be a " new car " by Foyt but nobody can back that up. Its probably one of the hand me down tubs.

Barber has the Gurney type 29 and Panrli has a type 34.

I love this stuff...

Brian

[Autocross7]

Correct answer on the Mario stand in...
Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

here is one.

wht did Mr. Gurney request that his car be painted white with blue stripe prior to it being delivered to the speedway the first year he ran for Lotus ?

Jimmy Clark's car was BRG with yellow stripe. Mr. Gurney's was white with blue stripe. anyone know why ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

He felt a green car was bad luck?

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Man you are GOOD..

great answer. he wouldnt get in a green car beacuse tradition at the speedway meant that green cars brought bad luck.

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Brian,
Are you SURE he didn't drive a green car (at Indy, only) for that reason? What was the color of the 29 that crashed and where is that tub? You've read, Team Lotus The Indianapolis Years, by Andrew Ferguson, yes?
Eric

[Brian Skeoch]

I have not read that book but the tile alone now has me searching. I thought all 29 tubs were accounted for ?

I read the story that Mr. Gurney did many years ago about how he convined Chapman to build a car for the 500. Gurney even got Ford to back him.

I sure didnt know of a 29 that crashed.

who was in it ?

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Answer, Dan Gurney. I remember when it happened.
You HAVE TO get the book, I could almost lend you mine but this thread and others keep me referring back to it. You could make one A Great Holiday Gift to yourself.

[Brian Skeoch]

amazing... he wrecked a 29 at Indy ? was it in 63 or 64 ? I will have get that book. thanks.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

I Love This Stuff...

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Brian, I've checked THE reference, b&w photos confirm. I was "kinda right." Car crashed was white and blue, USA racing colors, car Dan qualified was GREEN. I guess they re-painted it for the race. Ironically the no bad luck color crashed. I bet Dan is not superstitious.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

It was 1963. In 1964 they raced the type 34 with once again 3 being built, 2 falling into the hands of Parnelli and AJ. We haven't hijacked this thread but we've certainly burrowed a deep trivial hole...

[Brian Skeoch]

you are right. I just confirmed this with the Gurney camp.

thanks for the correction.


Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

hard to put a price on this entertainment. .

Brian

[Kimbers]

Hows about another?

In pretty Woman when the Lotus is being driven, who wrote Julia Roberts script....the bit that starts "This is a Lotus Esprit......"

Wayne.....HUSH!

[WayneB]

Ther answer to my trivia question a couple of pages back "who was the Lotus teams signwriter", is Paul Crowland .

When the 72 first went with JPS sponsorship , the cars were lettered with real 24 ct. gold leaf untill Colin Chapman realised it was costing so much it would send the team broke!

So they switched to a gold colour paint (yellow Ocre and white Keep's signwriters enamel mixed) that approximated the look of the gold leaf (from a distance) without the cost.

Alot of the time the lettering would have to be painted on the cars whilst the mechanics still worked on them.

Heres a pic of Paul, with his mahl stick and dipper pot doing his fine work.:)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/PaulCrowland.jpg

[Martin]

Hows about another?

In pretty Woman when the Lotus is being driven, who wrote Julia Roberts script....the bit that starts "This is a Lotus Esprit......"

Wayne.....HUSH!

I can't wait to hear this.....

[Autocross7]

but... think about it if Quentin Tarantino had written it...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

probably Dave Simkin. ?

[Brian Skeoch]

no, it was Simkin driving the car in those scenes in Bev Hills.

was it your dad who came up with the script ?

Brian

[Kimbers]

LOL!

Sort of. I'll let the old man tell it:

"Pretty Woman was a direct result of the board looking for another marketing method after losing the James Bond gig years before.....yes it took a while.....myself and Ron Foster got an agent in the states and they were sent the script to Pretty Woman. However, it wasn't a brilliant gig as there was no mention of the car apart from it's appearance. Here's the cool thing! Lotus offered the services of on eof it's own stunt drivers . In return Ron and I requested some input from the company into the script.

Now this is a major thing to do, as I'm sure you know, Touchstone (I think dad said it was them) said to put recommendations in and you know what? Changed parts to accomodate Lotus."

"Which Parts?" I hear you cry! Well......The original script had nothing about the car in it at all. They changed the fact that he was driving it so terribly (cause in the original he was fine) and Julia Roberts says " this is a 4 cylinder......" thats also Lotus. Same as the gearbox quote and the recommendations on how to drive it.

So the old man loves to say that he wrote part of the script for Pretty Woman :)

Now have you ever seen Jagged Edge? Well Funny Story about that one...you know the Black Esprit? ...........:D

[Brian Skeoch]

very cool.

Ron Foster. man, that dates us . I hear he is into financial investing now /

[Brian Skeoch]

can I askk the next question ?

during the old Rolex 24 back in the 60' at Daytona s there was a Lotus car that was running hard and was looking for the win. with just a few laps to go there was something going on with the motor. either no oil or a rod punched throgh the pan.

anyway, the driver , knowing something catastrophic was happening knew that if he kep the car up at the top of the banking maybe he could coast to a finish and win.

from what he told me the car died at the top of the high bank and he couldnt coast it over the line like he though so he shived it in 1st gear and hit the starter button which gave him enough speed to cross the finsih line and win the race.

name the year, driver and Lotus chassis type.

answer this correctly and you can have tomorrow off .

Brian

[Autocross7]

Dan Gurney in a Lotus Climax 19(B?):icon24:. His average speed was a 'blindingly' fast 104 mph. I am pretty sure this was the inagural running, but it did not last 24 hours, but only 3 hours. The race became a 24 hour event in 1966.

Over the years I know he must have taken some pretty good ribbing about that win!:icon15:

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

You are the man... great answer.

Brian

[Autocross7]

So, on to the part I do not know... the above event I know was in 1962. But, as I questioned it myself... does anyone know if this was in fact the inagural running of Daytona?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

here is one that will really take some memory.. and no open books on this one.

name the year and track where Lotus claimed its first rear engine champ car win ... and, name the driver...

Brian

[USAndretti42]

Do you mean Jim Clark's win at Milwaukee in June 1963 after the first Indianapolis attempt?

Or are you referring to Innes Ireland's F1 win? Not sure what you mean by "champ car?"

[clockwork]

Was it a coyote,Clockwork

[Brian Skeoch]

good answer,. Milwaukee mile.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

okay. here is one for Wayne and ALB that will really make them scratch their heads trying to figure this trivia question out.

name the driver that I am referring to.

1962 US GP at the Glen. driving a Lotus 18 Climax...

born in 1928. still resides in Witchita Falls TX and is an oil tycoon..

ran the 1962 race just for kicks.

was always considered the best driver that didnt win the Indy 500. was running in the back of the pack at the 62 race at the Glen.

has lots of sports car wins driving for the works Maserati team in the famous birdcage Maserati. he is a very soft spoken man, very friendly but generally quiet.

who am I spaeking of ?

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

I think I know but I think you've got the year wrong.

[WayneB]

Jim Hall

http://www.imca-slotracing.com/images/CANAM-Jim%20Hall-ZW.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

No no... I finally stumped you... Its not Jim Hall, but man what a great guess.

hint

this driver raced at Indy from the early 60's up to the late 70's.

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

I think you mean Lloyd Ruby but you've got the year wrong. Next question, what year was it?

[Brian Skeoch]

I said 62 but meant 61.

damnit

ha

you are good..

[WayneB]

1961?

I must admit Lloyd Ruby was a bit before my time, and not very well known in Europe (where I was bought up):confused:

I know all about Jim Hall though (met him at Elkhart Lake about 7 years ago), great guy and a gentleman.:)

I'm 47 so are you fellows in the 50's?

[Brian Skeoch]

I am 41.

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

TALK ABOUT TRIVIA... I'M 56.
Here's a two part Lotus question... Who won the first Grand Prix race in a Lotus, and who won the last Grand Prix in a Lotus. Bonus points for the years.

[Autocross7]

I'm 37... but sometimes I know the important things in history...hahaha...

Lotus came to play in the 1950's, but it was not until 1960at Monaco that Stirling Moss brought a Grand Prix victory to the team. This was also the first time a Lotus sported a rear mounted motor (Lotus 18).

Now, as for the last win, Ayerton Senna drove the team to the last victory that I can personally remember, in 1987 at Monaco in the Camel sponsored Lotus 99T.


Cameron

[WayneB]

Wasn't the last ever GP victory for a Lotus Ayrton Senna 99T Detroit 1988? (they did win at Monaco as well though):confused:

I know the Stirling Moss, Monaco 1960 18 (entered by Rob Walker)was right for the first Lotus car to win a GP.:)

http://www.artun.ee/~korc/pix/formulaone/gpr069-1960%20monaco%20gp%20-%20stirling%20moss%20(lotus%2018-climax).jpg

[Autocross7]

Regarding Senna, It is very posible Detroit was the last win. I cannot remember Detroit - but I have been inspired to look it up...

When the rumors of Lotus folding got going I started to loose interest a bit. Being a fan of Mika 'the flying Fin' kept me watching F1 in the background. I pretty much jumped to CART for my favorite open wheel (Indy only a little in the "circle only" days). Then the crap between CART and INDY started and I sort of jumped to INDY car full time when Chip and Rodger jumped. Big Team Andretti Green fan as well... Started following F1 "full time" again in 2000 when it came back to the states and Speed Channel put on some really good coverage!

However, now the Berrnie has (IMO) run F1 into the ground again along with some of those crap rules from the FIA, I have again started to loose interest in F1. Indy cars are road racing again... and as far as open wheel, that is the open wheel series I have been following the most... never lost interest in sport cars and ALMS has some of the best race entertainment today.

...checking on Detroit...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

great points Cameron. Tony Gerorgoe and Bernie have both, single handily F'd up open wheen racing in the states.

Tony says he wants the IRL to be for American drivers and be reasonably priced and ovals only.

well, 10 years later the fields are mostly comprized of Brazilians, the cost of lease of an IRL motor is 250 k for just 2 weeks at Indy, and the cost of a IRL chassis is 500 k. Oh, and now they race road tracks.

Bernie, is just as bad..

Brian

[Autocross7]

Yep... June 21st in 1987... Senna in a Honda powered Lotus...

As for racing in general, and i know I have said it before, I'd really like to see a Can-Am race brought back.

Light on rules... run what you brung sort of idea (within limits).

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

AMEN to that..

I have 3 words to say about Can AM..

Porsche 917 / 30

[Brian Skeoch]

Name the year and track that Lotus finished 1,2,3 in the IMSA World Challenge ( X180 R )

also name the drivers that finished 1,2,3.

Brian

[WayneB]

1993, Miami
1.Doc Bundy
2.David Murry
3.Andy Pilgrim

[Brian Skeoch]

correct. you are next.

[WayneB]

I dont like asking rhetorical questions so I will ask one I don't know the answer to!:D

What car and or manufacturer was the Lotus V8 engine (as used in the Esprit) originally designed for?:confused:

I have an idea who it was, but would like it confirmed.

http://www.shorey.net/Auto/British/Lotus/Lotus%20V8%20Esprit%20Engine.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

Corvette. 4 cam ZR1 ?

[Kimbers]

I'd say ditto.....but like you Wayne, it's one I don't know.

[Autocross7]

The top end of the Corvette V8 designed by Lotus was effectivley copied and Corvette continues to use design ques gleened from this engine today.

(took the factory tour in Kentucky and a guy there passed this info on, but it was a bit clear that they did not want to expand on this story)


Cameron

[TWO OLD ELANS]

I'm gonna guess Lotus, I think they (always) knew/hoped where it was going, into the Espirit. ...and then of course it could be sold to someone else...

[WayneB]

I dont like asking rhetorical questions so I will ask one I don't know the answer to!:D

What car and or manufacturer was the Lotus V8 engine (as used in the Esprit) originally designed for?:confused:

I have an idea who it was, but would like it confirmed.

http://www.shorey.net/Auto/British/Lotus/Lotus%20V8%20Esprit%20Engine.jpg

Brian Angus of Lotus emailed some info on the Lotus 918 engine in the photo that V8 owners may find interesting :)

What is unusual about the 918 V8 engine in the photo?:confused:

[Al B]

The almost flat configuration of the V?

[Brian Skeoch]

someone please ask a trivia question... who is up ?

[Brian Skeoch]

there are no cam belt covers ?

[Autocross7]

The cam belt is not driven by the crank...? It says LOTUS on the top, but there is not one drop of oil visible below...?


Got me. I have never seen a Lotus V8 up close and personal...

Cameron

[WayneB]

You chaps are close with the timing belt guesses.:)

Brian Angus says the 918 in the photo is fitted with the development timing belts, pulleys and automatic tensioners that never made it into production.
The belt has a herringbone tooth pattern and the pulleys are plastic mouldings.This system only ran on a few development engines , but was never developed fully to make it into production.

I found out that the engine was also originally destined for a AC lightweight Cobra, (William Taylor's Esprit book) and I'm pretty sure I read or was told by someone from Lotus it was destined to go into a front wheel drive GM(Pontiac Grand Prix?) or possibly Chrysler car (IROC Daytona?), but they had insurmountable structural problems with the chassis it was going in, due to the torque it generates.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

OK Brian, here are two unrelated questions.

Who was signed to drive a Lotus 56 at Indy but did not, due to a wrist problem?
AND...
June 1950, what happened in June 1950? ( in our La La Lotusland this one is not "trivial", it's historical)

[Brian Skeoch]

was it Al Unser Senior ? I remember he fell off a bike in the pits and broke some bones .

1950 ..

was that the year that Lotus went to Lemans and Chapman left all upset ? or, was that 1959. ?

I have to think about these questions for a few hrs..... the 1950 question has me stumped.

Brian

[WayneB]

I know in 1950 the first Lotus named car was offered for sale to the public by Colin Chapman, the Lotus Mk.2

He placed an ad in MotorSport magazine with a photo of the car (with himself and Hazel in it)

It was an Austin 7 based trials Special and he was asking 325 quid for it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/LotusMk2.JPG/800px-LotusMk2.JPG

Just remembered the answer to the other question on the Lotus 56 driver, It was Jackie Stewart.

He was signed up to replace Jim Clark, but hurt his wrist in an f2 race and couldn't drive the 56.

Mike Spence replaced Stewart, and was killed testing the 56.

Depressing stuff.

[Brian Skeoch]

great question.. great answers..

[Autocross7]

We can all prob. name some well known drivers that were also actors. Obviously James Dean comes to mind as he died in his Porsche on the way to a race (back when you drove the car you raced). Others would include (but are not limited to) James Garner, Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, and right on up to Justin Timberlake (well, not really an actor)...

One these driver/actors was Gene Hackman. From 1983 to 1985, he drove a Toyota Celica (off and on) in IMSA races...

What team did Gene Hackman drive for during this period of time?


Cameron

[WayneB]

Dan Gurneys All American Racers (AAR):001_smile:

Got a little trivia story of my own, concerning what a small world we live in.

About 10 years ago, I got quite sick one winter(pneumonia) and went into a local walk in clinic to see If they could keep me alive for a bit longer.:001_unsure:

So, after a 2 hour wait, I finally get to see a doctor, who turns out to be a nice expatriate British chap called Doctor Mink( who looked to be in his 70's).

He wanted to listen to my breathing, so I pulled up my sweater and a tee shirt I had on underneath.

The doc noticed what was written on the shirt (US Formula 1 Grand Prix, Indianapolis 2000) and says "I see you like Formula One, do you remember a driver called Graham Hill?"

I answered something like "Is the Pope Catholic":mf_dribble:, and he procceded to tell me he was Grahams best friend, was his best man at his wedding to Bette, was on the same rowing team and is Damon Hills godfather !

Small world Isn't it?:huh:

[Autocross7]

Correct...

That is a small word thing! Funny he felt he had to ask if you remmbered Graham Hill... i guess people just expect that Americans do know drivers that are not NASCAR?

Cameron

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Hello Wayne,
Jackie Stewart is correct.
Concerning my other question.... wrong,
hint, the advert was for a winner.

[WayneB]

You mean the first "clubmans"circuit race that Colin Chapman won at Silverstone?:huh:

Wasn't that the point that he decided that the future of Lotus lay in building racing cars and not trials cars ?:001_smile:

[TWO OLD ELANS]

aha...we must have read the same book. Yes. It was the first time a Lotus competed, and of course won, in an automobile race.

[WayneB]

Heres a Lotus road car question.

Who was the Lotus engineer who did the turbo installation and development on the 910 engine?

Whats he doing for a living today?

http://www.makeena.net/ArticlesImages/910_Lotus_Esprit_Turbo.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

man thats a great question. did Roger Becker do that design way back in the day ? ?

[Brian Skeoch]

if its Roger then he is still emoployed at Lotus.

[Brian Skeoch]

a neat thing about Jimmy Clark. when Dan Gurney went to Jim's funeral, Jims dad told Dan that he was the only one that Jim feared on the track...

Dan and Jim were very very tight.

at LOG 24, Dan was our guest speaker and on the stage, Mr Gurney couldnt keep a dry eye when talking about his pal Jim Clark.. quickly Mrs. Gurney asked that the subject quickly be changed as it was too hard for Mr. Gurney to talk about it again.

40 years later.. man, what a great event LOG 24 was ..

I wished I attened LOG in Texas.. I am kicking myself for not going.

Brian

[Autocross7]

I will never forget LOG 24. I had the plans in place... the place to stay.... the vacation marked.... and the company I worked for pulled my ALREADY APPROVED vaction time and sent me out of town. Seems my manager had to go to a football game (not soccer mind you), and "car stuff" just did not hold enough weight.

I promptly returned the weekend after LOG 24... and resigned. I then preceded to realize I had no non-compete in my file... and started my own company doing it better and faster!

Cameron

[WayneB]

man thats a great question. did Roger Becker do that design way back in the day ? ?


No it wasn't Roger Becker, it was Martin Cliffe who handled the turbo installation on the 910.

Martin Cliffe (and his family) actually now runs a Lancia parts and Restoration Company in Norfolk called Omicron Engineering.

I buy Lancia parts from them, nice people they are too.:001_smile:

[Brian Skeoch]

Great question.. Great trivia stuff.

Brian

[Autocross7]

What "unsuccessful" Lotus car introduced the Chapman strut?

Cameron

[WayneB]

The 12.

[Autocross7]

Well... the "twelve", but correct just the same...

Cameron

[WayneB]

Colin Chapman designed the Vanwall at pretty much the same time with the struts as well.

I think the Vanwall might have been the very first racing car to use that suspension setup.

[WayneB]

Who designed the body's on the Lotus 11 and 12 and who made them?:huh:

[Brian Skeoch]

Costin.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

Costin was the aero engineer and Peter Bryant was the mechanical engineer ?.

Brian

[WayneB]

Yes, Frank Costin designed the bodys, but Williams and Pritchard made them.

[Brian Skeoch]

Very cool...

[Kylie]

You guys amaze me :flowers:, you either have been googling these answers or each of you have a Lotus library the size of a public one at home!!

Makes my small collection of Esprit books look rather.............incomplete!!
Shame on me!
:heyjoe67_lotus:

[WayneB]

Brian thinks I cheat with books.:innocent:

I do read alot though, and do have access to what must be one of the largest motoring libraries in private hands in Canada (which isn't in my house):sad:

[Brian Skeoch]

I dont Wayne, I was just teasing you. You are just too darned good to stump with questions. darn it.

ha

Brian

[WayneB]

I have been reading about cars since I was about 7 years old.

My mom used to read Mills and Boone romance novels and she would buy me car magazines to read whilst she was in WH Smiths getting her weekly supply of paperbacks.

Mom would even buy me Hot Rod Magazine from the States, which was very difficult (and expensive) to find in England in the 60's.

Great lady, my mom.:flowers:

[Brian Skeoch]

same here. growing up in Indy had a HUGE affect on my life and how it revolved around the speedway.

I have no clue how to do college algebra, but when it comes to Indy history, its unfortunate but I read a lot and learned alot by being there..

I used to get into gasoline alley and spend alot of time with the drivers , their families , the team etc.

now.

what year were the full carbon tubs brough to Indy ? and, name the car builder..

[WayneB]

I would guess Roger Penske's team and 1986 (but I'm probably wrong)

Didn't the rules forbid them for the longest time?

I do know McLaren had the first carbon tub in F1 in 1981 though (made by Herculies)

[Brian Skeoch]

yes. It was 86, but the Penske cars were junk. he ended up buying several March cars. the Penske's were not competitive in 86 and Roger put them on the shelf and the March came in and put every other car maker to sleep.

March brought the first full tub to Indy. it was the 86 C.

Lola was a good car then tho but Haas had the strong arm on that deal and wouldnt allow any other teams to run the Lola.

The March 86 C was the answer I was looking for.

good job.

you are next

Brian

[WayneB]

errr, we have racing trivia in the Lotus trivia thread now!:ohmy:

I had better do a Lotus question to redress the situation.

Everybody knows Ron Hickman designed the Lotus Elan, Europa and Elan +2 body's (and the Black and Decker Workmate), but where did he work prior to Lotus?

http://www.lotus-europa.com/vintage_photos/rhickman1.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

Renault ?

[Autocross7]

You guys amaze me :flowers:, you either have been googling these answers or each of you have a Lotus library the size of a public one at home!!

Makes my small collection of Esprit books look rather.............incomplete!!
Shame on me!
:heyjoe67_lotus:


I fall back to Google when I really cannot remeber some detaily thing that is really bugging me... that I might be able to find. Short of that, my home library is pretty much cars, airplanes :convertible::airplane:, racing :heyjoe67_lotus::heyjoe67_ferrari:, guns :gunsmilie:, and history :detective::red_indian: (which also covers the cars, airplanes, and guns categories when I think about it).

Cameron

[Autocross7]

As for the answer... I have no idea this time! I do know that B&D originally told him the work bench was a bad idea and it would not sell!!!! Experts at work again!

$4 million and 4 years later while Ron Hickman set up to build and sell it himself... they got interested.

Cameron

[WayneB]

Ron Hickman actually worked as a stylist for Ford of Great Britain, Dagenham before going to work full time for Lotus.

He had a part in styling the Ford Anglia 105E and the Consul Capri (both cars with parts were adapted and used by him at Lotus)

I read somewheres that the first Workmate prototype he built used Elan wishbones!

As for Googling, I don't have a problem with that (as long as you can find a correct answer) The internet is so full of factual mistakes these days, at least authors of books normally go a ways to make sure the facts are reasonably correct before going into print (in most cases)

I think its great to learn something new every day!:001_smile:

[Autocross7]

Had no idea he worked with Ford?...

Another great thing about books is that they work without electrical power! I can sit anyplace I like and have read (or just brows through the photos).

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

before Jack Ansley built and owned the Lotu Sport team, who was he crew chief and engineer for ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

the answer was Bob Aikn. the Coke Porsche 935 team of years back. Jack was the crew chief and engineer of this team.

[WayneB]

The first magnesium wheels used by Lotus were the "wobbly web" wheels first used on some Lotus Eleven's.

What was unusual about the center caps Colin Chapman chose for the wheels :huh:?

[Brian Skeoch]

hmm. the wheels didnt have center caps did they ?

[WayneB]

Some people run them without caps, but they did have caps fitted by Lotus.

The "caps" were actually originally Shiphams Meat Paste jar lids!

The story behind the wobblys was that Colin Chapman had visited a foundry where he was having some castings done, and had accidently seen some secret prototype magnesium wheels that Coopers were having cast , and realising they were on to something, designed some of his own.

[Brian Skeoch]

now thats a great piece of history. great stuff. I love this stuff.

good job Wayne

thanks

Brian

[lwasson]

Hi Everyone

Here's a G-Esprit question for you. On the S3 Turbo the top louvre on the engine deck lid has a Gurnay Flap. What's its true function?

Lotus Buzz is a great site!

Louis
83 Turbo

[WayneB]

Hi Louis, and welcome to the forum.:001_smile:

The purpose of the small "Gurney flap" at the top of the louvres is to direct airflow away from the large hairy looking spoiler on the tail of the car!

Lotus descovered the new Turbo rear spoiler actually affected the ballance and stability of the car at speed so they wanted to either remove the spoiler or make it smaller, the problem being that both Giugiaro and Colin Chapman liked the hairy look the big spoiler gave the car, and refused to let them tamper or remove it.

So the solution was to add the small lip to direct airflow away from the spoiler, thus minimising any untoward effect it had on the cars aerodynamics.

Looks hot does that big tail flip up!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/SUNP0006.jpg

[Mark B.]

Some very interesting info on this thread!

Found this Lotus promo from the very early 70's which is quite amusing:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/mark_88_turbo/3-1.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPKT5ET9Bc)

[lwasson]

Hi Wayne

That's right. I'm about half-way thru reading Jeremy Walton's book and I found that fact interesting.

I like the white color of your car. Its shows lines certain lines (bumper letters and rear lower valence) better than my black 83.

Louis
83 Turbo

[Kylie]

Hi Louis, welcome to the forum, yes Waynes car is gorgeous. I have always loved white cars to show off the Esprits beautiful shape.
The louvres are just plain cool and interesting fact regarding the top lifted one :yes:

[Brian Skeoch]

I love that white G car too. great camera shot of that fine British rear end..

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

How many F1 races did Colin Chapman enter as a driver and where did he finish?

[Martin]

Some very interesting info on this thread!

Found this Lotus promo from the very early 70's which is quite amusing:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/mark_88_turbo/3-1.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPKT5ET9Bc)

How amazing it must have been to get to test drive those cars when they were brand new.

[WayneB]

How many F1 races did Colin Chapman enter as a driver and where did he finish?

Didn't he enter the French G.P. in a Vanwall, but DNF'd. I think it was 1958 ish.:huh:

[WayneB]

Some very interesting info on this thread!

Found this Lotus promo from the very early 70's which is quite amusing:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/mark_88_turbo/3-1.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPKT5ET9Bc)

And whats so amusing about the 70's me boy?:huh:

I used to have sideboards like that!:thumbup:

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Hello Wayne, I'll have to say no, and no. Earlier and earlier. Side clue question, when did he retire as a race driver? .... any other players out there? What is the etiquette on this thread as far as supplying answers? It's one of those obscure type F1 races, non championship.

[Brian Skeoch]

tough question.. I thought it was a Vanwall to .

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Awright, you two guys almost got warm and as we seem to have no other history buffs onboard....

Colin Chapman was "going" to race a Vanwall at the French Grand Prix, (in 1956. not '58), until he hit teamate Hawthorn in the rear during practice and only 2 out of 3 Vanwalls raced. Colin was a DNS in that event. (Harry Schell was the other team driver who raced.) Some say this collision ended his career as a race driver per Ms. Chapman's request/suggestion/demand.

My vague questions' answers are Silverstone International Trophy Meeting 1953 and last. What was he driving?

[USAndretti42]

I could stroll across the room and check what it says in "Colin Chapman and his cars," but that would not be in the spirit of the thread so I'll have to rely on my not so trusty memory.

I think it may have been a BRM at Monaco where, after a crash in practice or qualifying, Colin decided that designing the cars was more his thing than driving them particularly as he had a company to run.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Hello USAndretti, I think you answered while I was typing my answer and yours posted earlier. (?) Thanks for being the fifth responsive history buff on this site. If you were answering that last question, Mr Chapman wasn't driving a BRM at Silverstone in 1953.

[WayneB]

Well I know he won his first race at that event in the Lotus 6 and wasn't the F1 car a one off special of some sort an Emmerson? or something like that?

[TWO OLD ELANS]

You got it, my history book reads Emeryson, a one off and eight laps down?

[WayneB]

errr we are not supposed to be using books mate, grey matter only!:001_smile: