general racing trivia

[Brian Skeoch]

who gave Honda their first F 1 win. ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Hondas first f1 driver was Ronnie Bucknam, but Richie Ginther scored there first GP win in the 1965 Mexican GP.

Seem to remember also that the First Honda GP cars were built and designed by Cooper , who also trained all their racing mechanics at the time (and made them drink beer and eat fish and chips)

One of them became the last president of Honda!

[Brian Skeoch]

correct.

[WayneB]

Heres a question for you.:001_smile:

What famous motorcycle rider drove in the 1985 British Touring Car Championship , and for what team?:huh:

[Brian Skeoch]

couldnt be John Surtese could it ? ?

1985 ? would that be the old Silk Cut Jag team ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

scratch that..

was it Freddie Spencer in a Capri ?

[Brian Skeoch]

It has to be John Surtees .. ?

[Brian Skeoch]

85 British Touring car ? I dont think we were ever exposed to those guys here in the states.

I cant even think of the car that ran back there in 85. Capri was in the 70's.

It could have been John Surtees in a Vauhall ?

Brian

[WayneB]

No, sorry it wasn't any of your guesses.:no:

[Brian Skeoch]

here is more info on Richie Ginther. He came to Indy in 1967 with Dan Gurney. he attempted to make the 500 but Mr. Gurney waved him off on his second attempt and he was replaced by jerry Grant.

back then you could only get 2 attempts so Mr. Gurney pulled the car.

Ironically enough, and as sad as it sounds, that apparently was the last time Richie Ginther raced a car..

he was a good driver.

now, back to your British GT question.

I dont know.

was the driver Italian ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

All right.. I'll toss in my thought...

Barry Sheene

He was British. He raced motocycles... and he drove in the 1985 BTCC for Toyota Great Britan.

If not correct... at least this answer meets all the conditions of the question...


Cameron

[WayneB]

Your dead right Cameron:thumbup:

It was Barry Sheene in the Team Toyota GB Supra.

I actually worked on that car, Barry was a pleasure to work with (great sense of humour)

http://www.motosclassicas70.com.br/sheene_toyota.jpg

[Autocross7]

Only seen him on TV, but seemed like a nice guy. Toyota that year was a nice car, but outclassed by the others in the pack I think. I seem to recall Bary Sheene was not in the best of health... I think he called it quits for good after the BTCC run.

Cameron

[WayneB]

Barry Sheene suffered with terrible rheumatism as a result of all the metal plates and screws in his legs.

He went off to live in Australia, where the warm weather helped with his affliction.

His wife Steph, was an absolute stunner:mf_dribble:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/BSSS.jpg

The Supra was too heavy and underpowered , but next year and the year after Chris Hodgetts (Barrys teamate) won the BTCC for the Team in a Corrolla.:001_smile:

http://news.u-car.com.tw/news-images/2006/09/nc-20060905-35442.jpg

[TWO OLD ELANS]

How many championship F1 races were won by a Porsche?

[WayneB]

It was just one wasn't it?

Dan Gurney in the 804 in 1962 French GP

I saw that car in the Donnington Collection last year.

Looks like a formula vee.

http://www.cr-images.de/events/012/025.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

I dont think Mr. Gurney was ever F 1 champ, in either Porsche or his own Eagle cars. . did Porsche ever win a F 1 title ? I dont think so. not in that series anyway.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

Oops. I am sorry, I read the question wrong.

yep, 62, Gurney in the Porsche. Its also when he met his lovely wife Evi. they are still married to this day. she looks like Sofia Loren.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

Wayne. You are up. question please. ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Which formula one race was held in the snow?

Where and when!

[Brian Skeoch]

Canadian GP when there was a fluke snow storm ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

I actually have no idea but the questions are really getting good.

Wayne, you are a wealth of racing knowledge.

I love it.. you are good.

Brian

[WayneB]

No, surprisingly it wasn't the Canadian Grand Prix.:xmas:

I will give an answer tommorow , with a pic to proove(I have to go out now):001_smile:

[WayneB]

The only F1 race that was ran in the snow to my knowledge was the 1973 Daily Express Trophy at Silverstone.

Here is the pic I found of Ronnie Peterson driving the Lotus 72 in those conditions!

Another piece of trivia, is the photo was taken by then Lotus chassis designer
Jerry Booen, who worked on the racing cars up till the type 96 and on the road cars (from the S1 Elan chassis).

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/Ronnie72snow1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/Ronnie72snow2.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

man.... great trivia.

[Autocross7]

1976 Watkins Glen (held in October that year) had snow the day before the race. Only minor flurries the day of the race, then the sun came out and the rest is history. Winner... James Hunt.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

I have one.

who was the first multi winner at Indy ?

Brian

[WayneB]

By multiple do you mean more than twice Brian?

I know Louis Meyer won it 3 times.

He and his brother used to make speed equipment for Model T Fords and Flathead V8's.

http://www.rumbledrome.com/images/lou28a.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

correct.

[Brian Skeoch]

name the chassis in this picture.. name the builder of the car and name the motor. and for extra points, name the state where these cars were built.

Brian

[WayneB]

Which ex.F1 driver drove the Audi RS8 in the driving scenes in Paris, in John Frankenheimers film "Ronin"?:huh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igbaHBQjHQ

[Brian Skeoch]

Alan McNish and JJ Lehto .

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

or was it the late Alboretto ?

[WayneB]

No ,no and finally No.

Clue. Frenchman

[Brian Skeoch]

Andre Degineris ?

[WayneB]

Sadly never herd of him, is he Ellen Degeneris's brother?:huh::001_tongue:

[Brian Skeoch]

he is the only French driver that I can think of that is probably still alive . Maybe I am thinking of someone else.

you do realize that these are closed book answers.. ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Sorry Brian I thought you were having a joke for a minuite.

Andrea Decesaris was an Italian F1 driver.

So you think I am finding all the answers in a book eh?:huh:

[Brian Skeoch]

that him.. thanks. I thought he was French.

No open book Q & A.

ha

[WayneB]

It was Jean-Pierre Jarrier

You do know of him Brian because he was mentioned on here in another thread concerning the Shadow-Matra he drove.

[Brian Skeoch]

cool.

[Brian Skeoch]

Wayne. Next question please.

Brian

[WayneB]

What type of business was Ken Tyrrell in before he ran his F1 team?:huh:

[Autocross7]

... a bit of time in the Royal Air Force and then on as a timber merchant I believe.

Most remembered in my mind as the man that brought 6 wheels to Formula 1!

Cameron

[WayneB]

Great answer Cameron, his nickname was "Chopper" as a reference to his lumberjacking skills.

He was one of the last f1 team principles to operate with honesty and a true man of principle.

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/56566057.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=6129C2E8305357EF8E2053823EB9A2B5284831B75F48EF45

[Brian Skeoch]

I spoke with a former Indy 500 veteran Mel Kenyon last night. mel is in his 70's yet still races Midgets all over the central part of the US. he has 374 wins all together.

he went to Indy as a rookie in 1967 driving a Gurney Eagle with Offenhauser power. his worst memory of racing was at Langhorn where he wrecked and was burned so bad they had to amputate his hand. he still, to this day, races cars with that knob on the steering wheel.

one memory that stands out with him is in 1971, he was racing very well when suddenly he came out of turn 3 at 160, saw some oil tthat another car dropped and Mel hit that oil, spun and back into the turn 4 wall. Just when he opened his eyes and started to get out he saw Mario Andretti come flying by.. Mel started to get out of the car when WHAM, Gordon Johncock came flying into him and ran Mel over... scary stuff.

some of his great friends back then were Ruby, Donahue, Unser..

Mel is continuing to build Midget race cars using Ford Focus motors and they are very sucessful.

he never raced a Lotus Indy car but raced several Lotus sports cars and really liked the history of Lotus.

Just a neat tid bit I wanted to share.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

who was known as the " flyin Hawaiian "

?

[Brian Skeoch]

the Flyin Hawaiian was a very good driver in all racing... he drove for Ted Field mostly which was the Interscope Racing entry.

name this driver. for bonus points, where does he currently reside ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Danny Ongais.

I remember he was a drag racer as well and drove a top fuel dragster and a funny car.

I presume he no longer lives in Hawaii!

[Brian Skeoch]

you are correct.

he lives in Santa Ana CA.

he was good in the Interscope March cars at Indy, he was REALLY good in the Interscope Porsche 935's at Daytona.

from what I have been told Danny would get soo relaxed during the 500 he would start day dreaming and before you know it he was in the wall.

he and Ted Field had a falling out in 1986 or 87. Danny wrecked the car and Ted got soo up set that he took the cars and parked them in a storage shed in CA and that was it. the motors were not even pickled before they were parked.

the cars just resurfaced 3 years ago and were bought on ebay..

I love this stuff.

[Autocross7]

in 2006, Cristiano da Matta suffered severe head injuries in a testing crash at Elkhart Lake's road America in Turn 6...

What was determined to be the crash?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

he center punched another car in the side pod..

[Brian Skeoch]

No.. .scratch my last response..

He hit a deer ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

Yep... he hit a deer. It was tipped and sucked up into the cockpit as he hit the tire wall still planting the throttle!

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

can anyone name the driver of the Indy 500 that as a Indy winner lived the shortest time period after winning the 500.

name the driver

the year

and what happened. oh, and after that, name the passengers of the titanic.

serously, this is a true question..

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

this is too hard of a question. the correct answer is George Robson. he was killed in Augusy of 1946 in Atltanta diving a car race. he only lived as Indy 500champion for 3 months.

Gordon Johncock won indy twice. 1973 and 1982. Name his team owner.

Brian

[Autocross7]

Owner(s) I think....

In 1973 he drove the STP car for Pat Patrick.
In 1982 he drove the STP car for Boyd Bones. He just got this win if I recall? It seems like Rick Mears should have won that race...

Cameron

Added: this is the first Indy I remember getting to watch on a color TV!

[WayneB]

How many other countries has the Indycar/Cart series raced in besides the USA, Canada and Australia?:huh:

[Brian Skeoch]

Germany, Assie. they stuill run at Surfers Paradice but no longer in Germany.

Gordy won in Patrick cars each year. in 73 he drove a Gurney Eagle which Pat Patrrick purchased, but in 82 Pat Patrick had the Wildcat built just around the corner of the speedway. Riley & Scott had alot to do with that car.

Mears thought Gordy blocked which he probably did a few times. still, my favorite Indy 500 of all time. if you ever get a chance to see the last 20 laps on tape do it.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

they also ran in the UK at a place called Birmingham. ?

[WayneB]

They have raced at Rockingham , England which is a banked oval track, and they also raced at Brands Hatch back in the late 70's (part of the track is still called the Indy circuit)

Other places I remember is Mexico(Jaurez), Brazil(San Paulo )and Japan(Twin Ring Motegi)

[Brian Skeoch]

oh thats right... I forgot about those.

trivia.

who designed the Mexico track ? he also raced there and now his son is a famous champ car driver.

[Brian Skeoch]

rookie of the year at Indy in 1983 ?

name the driver

the chassis

the soonsor.

Brian

[Autocross7]

I want to say Teo Fabi (sp? on last name).

I do not recall if it was a March or a Reynard chasis... sorry. But it did have a Cosworth motor.

Maybe Copenhagen or Skoal... snuff tobacco. (where is my model collection when I need it? - one more reason the stay at home!)


So... I'm still stumped on the Mexico City track?

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Dude.. you are the Man. it was the Skoal car. March.. Cosworth. gold BBS wheels which really made the car look good.

you are up next with the question

Brian

[Autocross7]

Alrighty then...

An easy one. Who is the only driver to win a Grand Prix championship and a CART championship in the same year? and... what year was it?

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

the Mexico question answer was Michelle Jordain Sr.

the answer to your question is Mario ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

name 4 sets of brothers that raced in the Indy 500 at the same time. Meaning, 2 drivers with he same last name in a Indy 500. I know of 3 sets off the top of my heard that compete in the 80's..

this is a good question for you Indy buffs.




Brian

[Autocross7]

Nope... none of the Andretti family have pulled this off...

The only driver to hold these Championship titles at the same time was Nigel Mansell in 1992-1993 seasons.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Nice...

[WayneB]

name 4 sets of brothers that raced in the Indy 500 at the same time. Meaning, 2 drivers with he same last name in a Indy 500. I know of 3 sets off the top of my heard that compete in the 80's..

this is a good question for you Indy buffs.




Brian

Unser (Bobby and Al Jr.)

Andretti (Mario and Micheal)



Cant think of any others.

[Brian Skeoch]

Unsers - Al & Bobby
Bettenhausens - Gary & Tony
Sneva's - Jerry and Tom
Winningtons - Bill, Don & Dale
Andretti- Michael and Jeff. Both sons of Mario


Brian

[WayneB]

God, I messed up that answer good and proper (next time I will read the question properly)!:ohmy:

What did Graham Hill do with his share of the prize money he recieved for winning the Indy 500 in 1966?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/GrahamHillIndy500.jpg

I love that Lola, probably my favourite Indy car. I saw it about 6 years ago when it had been pulled out of damp storage, engineless with a lot of rust in the frame, and very cracked paint the seller wanted $250,000 for it .:001_unsure:

[Brian Skeoch]

there is a sister car of this lola that was driven by Eldon Rassmusen I believe that appears at the Mitty each year that is for sale. It has the Ford 4 cam. I believe it is available for under 60 k .

it was pieced together by Eldon from a car that had been wrecked several times. he lived in his truck at the speedway because he couldnt aford hotel expenses. he bought uesed tires from teams that wore them out. Eldon qualified the car for the race. I dont believe he finished but he was comitted to enter and he did.

I love Indy.

[Brian Skeoch]

more stupid Indy trivia

who was nicknamed the " Gas man " at Indy and why ?


Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

what did Graham do ? Buy his airplane with the winnings "

Brian

[WayneB]

Yes he did.:001_smile:

Apparently, he bought the aircraft from a dealer in Indianapolis after the Indy 500 and flew it back to England.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/04_1_b.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

didnt he have it painted in Gold Leaf colors too ?

[WayneB]

Wasn't the "Gas Man" Tom Sneva?

Danny Ongais was called "On the Gas" for obvious reasons, but I think Sneva was called it because he was outspoken and liked to talk or "gas" (rather like Darrell Waltrip was called "jaws" for similar reasons)

I don't remember Graham Hill's plane being in Gold Leaf colours but Colin Chapman's was (he seemed to always have G-PRIX painted in sponsors colours, Gold Leaf ,JPS and Essex Petroleum for sure)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/Chapmanesprit-1.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

yes.. Wayne you are good. Tom the Gas man Sneva. 83 March Cosworth. his sponsor was Texaco which explained his Gas Man nick name. his crew chief was George Bignotti.

Brian.

Great picture of CC and that beautifl G car... I have never seen that picture before.

thanks Wayne.

next question..

[Brian Skeoch]

Gurney had a story about CC and a plane. they tried to lift off and the runway was muddy and Dan didnt think they would be able to lift off. he was scared to death but it managed somehow to get airborn.

great stuff.

[GregWO]

Yes Wayne, I love that picture! Is there a high-Res picture available somewhere? Would love to make that my desktop wallpaper...

[Autocross7]

I'm surprized Dan Gurney would be afraid at a point like that... maybe after?

As a pilot, there is really only one no no:nono:... never take your musical instruments on board and you'll be fine! hahaha....


Cameron

[GregWO]

HA HA HA :lol:

So true...

[WayneB]

Yes Wayne, I love that picture! Is there a high-Res picture available somewhere? Would love to make that my desktop wallpaper...

Greg I can email it to you If you want, pm me your address. Its been my wallpaper for about 2 months now.It was originally sent to me by Owen Wright , who has one of the originals he obtained at a lotus factory open day signed by Colin Chapman!

I have read a few storys about Colin Chapman's aviation adventures, take offs(and landings) in the fog, Jim Clark hanging half out the plane ,pleading with him to stop a take off run so he can fetch a forgotton helmet, Peter Warr loosing his gold Rolex running across the tarmac so he can catch up with a taxing Chapman, and Mike Kimbeleys account of loosing pressurisation over the Alps and having to dive down and loose altitude before everyone passed out.

[GregWO]

Thanks Wayne PM sent. Being with Colin Chapman sounds like it would of been exciting times for sure!!!

[WayneB]

Colin Chapmans old 1978 Cessna 414 Chancellor is still flying and is currently for sale for $625,000 .Its current reg is N-414BT. I asked my wife If I could have it for christmas and unreasonably she said no.:crying:

I tracked the plane down (sn.0048) and actually spoke to the chap who currently looks after it. he had heard of Colin Chapman, but had no idea he had once owned the plane.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/1037121F.jpg

http://www.aircraftdealer.com/dealers/m/mikejonesaircraftsales/15477/big_76780597.jpg

http://www.aircraftdealer.com/dealers/m/mikejonesaircraftsales/15477/big_76780581.jpg

http://www.aircraftdealer.com/dealers/m/mikejonesaircraftsales/15477/big_76780585.jpg

[Autocross7]

Nice plane, but I think over priced. For that money I could get an air wing of Long EZs or at the very least a Skymaster or two (my personal favorie Cesna)!

I have flown a Long EZ and it is like an Esprit for the sky on steroids!

Still, gotta be worth a bit more to have been CC's once.

Cameron

[WayneB]

Wasn't the Long EZ a more developed version of the Lotus microlight plane?

I have been following Burt Rutans company, Scaled Composites for a while now, it seemed Mr.Rutan and Mr.chapman were like kindrid sprits not being scared of trying something new. Brian Angus told me that the Microlight project really fired up Colin Chapmans enthusiasm, and he was very "hands on" with the development of the Lotus engine that was to power it.

http://www.bridgingworlds.com/lotusmicrolight2.jpg

[TWO OLD ELANS]

... and what's the tale about using a farmer's field next to a road course for a landing strip. Upon returning to the plane after the weekend of racing Colin and company had found that cows had eaten some canvas airplane skin???

[USAndretti42]

They have raced at Rockingham , England which is a banked oval track, and they also raced at Brands Hatch back in the late 70's (part of the track is still called the Indy circuit)

Other places I remember is Mexico(Jaurez), Brazil(San Paulo )and Japan(Twin Ring Motegi)

I can't remember if they also raced at Silverstone in the 70's, same year as the Brands Hatch race. I went to the practice/qualifying day but the weather wasn't very good. Rain held up proceedings although they managed to get some practice in and qualified but I can't remember if the race itself was rained off. Champcar raced at Brands last year and at Assen, I think, in Belgium, I think, this year. CART raced in Monterrey, Mexico in 2001 and 2002 and Mexico City in 2002. The Brazil race was held in Rio, not Sao Paulo. It was an oval race.

[Brian Skeoch]

who nicknamed his race car " Calhoun " ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

Ahhhh... more from Indy...

Parnelli Jones I believe.



Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

yep.

[Brian Skeoch]

question please ?

[Mark B.]

No question here but a small clip of Chapman being interviewed about the Type 88. Ignore the gloomy voice over man!

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/mark_88_turbo/1-2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fYGRgTEX0U)


And here's a Fittipaldi pit stop:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/mark_88_turbo/2-2.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLvRp5g0Ybc)

[Martin]

Good stuff!
You know it's funny how many times I do general searches for Lotus videos on youtube etc. and I can't seem to find all these good clips. Thankfully you guys can. :thumbup:

[Autocross7]

Alllllrightttie then... next question:

Gordon Murray, having gotten a glimpse of Colin Chapmans ground effects planning on the Lotus 79, set out to 'kick up the anti" a bit. He had to bend the rules a bit to do so... but what was the result of his design effort? And... it was debut winning at what event?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

oh man.. . great question and dare I say TOUGH .

he went to Mclaren sometime arond then and started working on their super car ?

[Autocross7]

This effort on his part was before the move to McClaren...


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

he went to some smaller F 1 team like Ligier or ATS ?

[Autocross7]

Okay, no other players and I'll be out drivng the rest of the day :thumbup::steeringwheel: as I have half day off and the weather is great!

The answer:
Gordon Murray, having gotten a glimpse of Colin Chapman's ground effects planning on the Lotus 79, set out to 'kick up the anti" a bit. The result of his design effort was the Brabham BT46B... or better known as the Fan Car.

Murray placed a giant fan and tunnel at the rear of his design and stated to the officials that the fan "provided engine cooling" for the flat 12 Alfa motor. The officials allowed the car to race based on this simple explination... In truth the fan's engine cooling was a "simple plus" as it's job was to really suck air out from under the car (and through the ground effects) creating a very low pressure area incredible down force.

The car, driven by Nikki Lauda, debut inthe 1978 Swedish GP where it created the most boring race in history (I think)... and was propmtly declared illegal after the race! However, the win was granted and the victory did go to Brabham/Alfa!

Cameron

Here is a photo I had on my dessktop...

[GregWO]

oh Cool!!! Wouldn't want to stand behind it if a rod was thrown.....

[USAndretti42]

The week after that race, Chapman had a type 79 mocked up with a fan in each sidepod behind tghe radiator. Just in case his appeal against the Brabham was rejected.

Nice how the rule enforcement was much simpler then. The car was banned but the result was allowed to stand as there was a grey area before. No massive fines.

What did Brabham use to hide the fan in testing?

[Brian Skeoch]

awesome... I forgot about that old beast.

great question too.

Brian

[clockwork]

The fan car used a few innovative things,flat panel heat exchangers were tried but failed,the car before had used an electric fan to achieve the same ground suction effect.The later fan car had it`s fan hidden with a number of items of equipment most notably a dustbin lid.Clockwork

[Kylie]

oh Cool!!! Wouldn't want to stand behind it if a rod was thrown.....


Ditto :eek: :death:

[Brian Skeoch]

name this driver.

former F 1 driver for Ferrari
former Audi LMP factory driver
former Mazda IMSA driver
former Indy ( Champ car driver ) driving the Tony Bettenhausen car
former Mclaren F 1 driver.

soft spoken gentlemen. Really nice guy and was always considered 2nd driver of each team. this guy was a class geneltmen and never really over drove his cars.

who am I talking about ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

Hmmmm.... I cannot fit anyone I know of into all of those references, but... Stefon Johansson (sp?) I recall he did drive under some or most of the above.

not sure about Mazda and McClaren... so that's my guess.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

you are correct.

[Brian Skeoch]

the world ILMOR is notorius for powerful engines.

who's name makes up the world ILMOR ?

[Autocross7]

Got me on this one!

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Mario Ilien .

they made the Penske Champ cr motors for years. They started making the Chevy A, then B, then C motors. after that they were purchase dby Mercedes Benz and then they were called the Mercesdes Imore motors. they used the Push rod V 8 motors at Indy. they made the most god awful sound but they were reliable and fast.

ILMOR engines are in Michigan and up to recent years built the Old and Chevy IRL motors until Honda Honda put he stranglehold on the IRL.

Ilmor still makes boat motors as well as major strong race engines.

next time I am in Michigan I am planning on touring the plant.

Brian

[Autocross7]

Some of the most noted weekend racer and club racer cars of the past were the Fiat Dino, MGB GT, Jag XJ6, Ferrari 246, and Alfa Romeo 1600. I think I might even have some old VHS that I took at an SCCA event that features these cars...

The question is..... what do they all have in common?

Cameron

[USAndretti42]

Mario Ilien .

they made the Penske Champ cr motors for years. They started making the Chevy A, then B, then C motors. after that they were purchase dby Mercedes Benz and then they were called the Mercesdes Imore motors. they used the Push rod V 8 motors at Indy. they made the most god awful sound but they were reliable and fast.

ILMOR engines are in Michigan and up to recent years built the Old and Chevy IRL motors until Honda Honda put he stranglehold on the IRL.

Ilmor still makes boat motors as well as major strong race engines.

next time I am in Michigan I am planning on touring the plant.

Brian

Just a cotton-picking moment. Where the answer isn't complete, it isn't fully accurate.

The name "Ilmor" name comes from the combination of the names of founders Mario Ilien and Paul Morgan in the same manner that Cosworth is a combination of founders Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth. They kept the name Ilmor after the Mercedes investment until a couple of years ago when Mario, Paul Morgan's widow and Roger Penske bought the non-F1 side of the business back to re-form Ilmor Engineering while the F1 business became Mercedes High-Performance Engines. The Detroit operation always remained and remains now Ilmor. They build most of the Honda IRL engines and distribute them all, including those built by Honda in California, to the teams.

[Brian Skeoch]

thanks. I didnt know that part of their business.

[Brian Skeoch]

I do know that are very proud of those IRL lease projects and charge about 300 k to a team who just wants to lease a motor for the month of May . if you want the motor for just qualification day and race weekend then the charge is a bit less, but this is another F up that Tony George did with the IRL.

it was supposed to be more cost attractive to teams that could afford to race at Indy and now look..

Brian

[WayneB]

Just a cotton-picking moment. Where the answer isn't complete, it isn't fully accurate.

The name "Ilmor" name comes from the combination of the names of founders Mario Ilien and Paul Morgan in the same manner that Cosworth is a combination of founders Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth. They kept the name Ilmor after the Mercedes investment until a couple of years ago when Mario, Paul Morgan's widow and Roger Penske bought the non-F1 side of the business back to re-form Ilmor Engineering while the F1 business became Mercedes High-Performance Engines. The Detroit operation always remained and remains now Ilmor. They build most of the Honda IRL engines and distribute them all, including those built by Honda in California, to the teams.


Hi Trev,

I know you used to work for Ilmor, and might have actually met you as I got to go in the Ilmor-Chevrolet Trailer at the Molson Indy Toronto a few years back, and shook hands with all the staff.

Wayne

[Brian Skeoch]

very cool.

does Ilmor refurbish old Chevy or MB champ car motors ?

[USAndretti42]

Wayne, I didn't work for Ilmor. I worked for Honda Performance so I guess we didn't meet.

The lease charge for May is about $250,000 and about half that for teams running only the second week and the race. It is a lot of money but compared to what else a team is spending and what the competition would have charged, it's reasonable, I know that Honda, Ilmor and the IRL have worked to get the lease price down.

I don't know if Ilmor still refurbish the Chevy engines. I would guess that they would for a price. All the Mercedes Champcar engines were leased, I think, so there shouldn't be many out there to rebuild, just those in Roger Penske's museum cars.

Anyway, I'm still stumped by Cameron's question. :confused:

[Brian Skeoch]

what about Brayton Motors up in Michigan. are the still doing motors ? I remember they were pretty good with the Buick V 6 turbo that was thirsty but had tons of power.. when they finished.

now that will be a good question..

when was the last time a Buick Indy V 6 finished the 500 ?

I am still faciniated with the Judd V 8 Turbo motors that were used at Indy. from what I recall, they were down on power but were good with fuel.

I love THIS STUFF.

[Autocross7]

Some of the most noted weekend racer and club racer cars of the past were the Fiat Dino, MGB GT, Jag XJ6, Ferrari 246, and Alfa Romeo 1600. I think I might even have some old VHS that I took at an SCCA event that features these cars...

The question is..... what do they all have in common?

Cameron

Answer: All of these cars were designed by Pininfarina in Italy.

[Brian Skeoch]

Oh come on... thats what we were thinking when you first posted this. instead, we dug deep into the question and tried to figue out other similarities.

you should ask the next question.. ha..

ask away.

Brian

[Autocross7]

Nobody said the answers had to be deep or hard.... like, how do you put an elephant in the fridge?.... Open the door and put him in. Then close the door.


Question: What LeMans winning and record holding Nigel Stroud designed race car had Jackie Ickx placed as the team technical advisor?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

Porsche

[Autocross7]

Mazda.

The 787B of 1991. It still holds several records from fuel mileage to number of laps covered as far as I know. Beautiful car and I can say first hand that it sounds awsome! The engine intake runner was a rather interesting bit having telescopic venturi pipes that changed geometry with a pulley and cable system...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

very cool.

great question, great answer.

[Autocross7]

It should be your turn again unless anyone else wants to throw one in...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

speaking of Mazda, Jim Downing called his prototypes the Kudzu. what relationship does he haver with the Kudzu name.

Brian.

[Autocross7]

Stummmpppped.... I'd have to cheat to get this one...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

from what I remember, Jims dad was the one who brought the Kudzu plant to the states for vegetation growth.

when you are here in Atlanta you will need to swing by Downing America. he has some of those old Kudzu GTP cars just laying around... the HANS device shop is there too. its really all cool.

Downing als makes the body kits for the Mazda Rolex cars.

really neat stuff.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

who won the 1967 Spa F 1 race ?

name the driver

chassis

engine


Brian

[Autocross7]

Just was reading this last night !:lol: in a great book - History of Grand Prix!

Dan Gurney

Eagle

Weslake

...Clark, in the Lotus-Cosworth finnished 5th (I think).

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

correct a mundo.

[Brian Skeoch]

Cameron. question please.. Make it a tough one..

[Autocross7]

Okay... off the top of my head so maybe not tooooo tough?

What great Giugiaro designed car was troubled by production finances and then delays - preventing the car from racing in international Group 5 for which it was designed? By the time the car was completed and production was up to par, the rules for International Group 5 had changed and the cars went on to race is suppot races for Formula 1...

Cameron

[WayneB]

BMW M1

The Procar series had some great looking graphics and alot of hairy driving technoques as I recall!

http://www.bmwm1.com/archive/RaceOfM1.jpg

[Autocross7]

Correct... and such a beautiful car!

Cameron

[WayneB]

Heres an interesting trivia question.

Which racing team actually discovered the "ground effect" aerodynamic downforce principle, and who was it who suggested to Colin Chapman that they could use it on a GP car?

Clues are it was a British team, they never used it on any of their racing cars, and the fellow who suggested it to Colin Chapman wasn't a chassis designer or an aerodynamacist!

[Autocross7]

BRM, but I do not think they actually put it into practice?

Cameron

[WayneB]

Thats right, and they never did apply it.

[Autocross7]

Do you have any idea why they never applied it? (This is not a trivia question - I really have no idea)

Cameron

[WayneB]

Probably because the team were on the way out in 1971 and hadn't the funds to fully explore and develope it.

Peter Revson left and took the Yardley (Revlon) money with him.

They did eventually make a ground effect car the P230, in 1978, but it was too late by then as they had run right out of cash (it was the last BRM)

http://members.madasafish.com/~d_hodgkinson/Pic-P230-1.jpg

I had completely forgotten about that car as it never was raced in a GP!

[Autocross7]

Make sence... always gets back to funding I suppose...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

man. what great info. was Peter Revson the " Rev " behind Revlon ?

[Brian Skeoch]

where did all of those BMW M1's end up ? are they in private hands or in museums ? were they destroyed or crushed ?

[GregWO]

I've got one in my basement.......


ha ha ha I wish....

great thread, I wish I could contribute, but for now I'll just shut up and keep reading....:yes:

[Autocross7]

I know a lot ended up in private hands as street cars. There used to be a white one running around Hoover, AL (south of Birmingham) - but I hear that that car was sold to a guy in TX? but I cannot say for sure. this is a pretty good web site...

http://www.bmwm1.com/


Cameron

[WayneB]

I know at least 2 of them are being vintage raced in North America.

I saw the BASF "hypnotic" liveried car at the Somat des Legends Mt. Tremblant last year together with one of the BMW diagonal stripe ones.

The design of the side glass on the M1 was actually one of the treatments that Giugiaro considered and rejected for the Esprit originaly.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/BASFprocar1.jpg

[WayneB]

man. what great info. was Peter Revson the " Rev " behind Revlon ?

Peter Revson's family owned Revlon Cosmetics (The British Yardley Cosmetics was owned by them as well) Revson bought Yardley into F1 to sponsor the BRM's and Mclarens (driven primarily by him)

http://www.auto-news.cz/pictures/u1175730711.jpg

[Autocross7]

I think the M1 looks a bit like the Jalpa... both pretty cars IMO.


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

thanks. I remember when Revson ran at Indy . that is another example of Indy back then as being a showcase of American drivers. Revson was famous in his own right but being brought up in Indy we knew very little about him.

[WayneB]

Peter Revson ran in the Can-Am as well in a McLaren M8F, he was Denny Hulme's teamate after Bruce McLaren died in the testing accident at Goodwood.

[Brian Skeoch]

here is a dumb Indy trvia question.

what is the fastest confirmed and timed lap at Indy ? name the driver, the year, the motor and the chassis.

Brian

[WayneB]

Might be totally wrong here but isn't It AJ Foyt, in the Turbo Quad 4 engined Oldsmobile Aerotech who went around in 1987 at 257mph?

What a car that was!:mf_dribble:

http://dhost.info/thesupercars/supercars/oldsmobile/aerotech/aerotech1.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

Wayne. Great picture... didnt Foyt run that car at Talladega ? broke Donahue's closed course record.

I was referring top Arie Lyendyke did a 239 mph at Indy in a 96 Renard during practice on a cold day with no other drivers on the track . he had no tow.

the motor was a Cosworth.

I believe that was an unofficial lap that wasnt a qualification lap. the fastest qualification lap, I believe was Roberto Guerrero in a Lola Buick at 234 in 1992

I love racing.

[Brian Skeoch]

Now. the question I have for everyone..

would you do it ?

would you click off a lap at 239 mph ??? In a 96 Reynard with a DFV Cosworth ?

I would... if the car was a good clean car.

Brian

[Autocross7]

Now. the question I have for everyone..

would you do it ?

would you click off a lap at 239 mph ??? In a 96 Reynard with a DFV Cosworth ?

I would... if the car was a good clean car.

Brian

What track... Indy or Columbus to Clevland OH (right past those state troopers).......

Cameron

[USAndretti42]

Talking of BRM, what did Lotus manage to do with the H16 engine in 1966 that BRM failed to do?

[WayneB]

They won a race using it!:001_smile:

Jim Clark, Lotus 43, US Grand Prix Watkins Glen.

Sadly the only race victory for that engine.

http://index.hu/cikkepek/totalcar/blogok/belsoseg/2007_04_27_h16.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

who was the youngest driver to qualify for the Indy 500 ? he lied about his actual age. years later, it was confirmed that he was younger than what he originally reported.

for extra points, can anyone recall his true age at the time when he was a rookie ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

The answer was Josele Garza. He said he was 22 but he was actually 19 and a fast rookie at the speedway. He lied about his age which allowed USAC officials to grant him his CART license.

I would have done the same thing. The kid was fast and had great ability.

He also ran a March C chassis.

I wonder what ever happened to Garza.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

new trivia question. again, stupid Indianapolis trivia. please forgive me and my useless Indy stuff, but its my passion.

who was the first driver to click off 4 laps over the 200 mph mark for qualifications at Indy ?

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

here is a good one.

when March developed their Indy car they gave it a C designation. They always referred to the Indy cars as 82 C, or 84 C, or better yet my favorite the 87 C.

does anyone here know what the C stood for ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

I have not even a guess????

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

the C stood for " circle track " March was really into making a chassis that would win Indy. needless to say, March had 90 % of the Indy cars in 1987..

talk about useless and I mean useless trivia.. But, thats why this game is so fun.

sorry for my on going and useless Indy junk.

Brian

[WayneB]

I wouldn't appologise Brian, I quite like getting an education on Indy from you.:thumbup:

[GregWO]

I am enjoying this thread, even though i have nothing to add or know the answers .... but sure is great info!

[USAndretti42]

Was it Johnny Cecotto (sp?). Not sure about the team either. Could have been BMW or Alfa.

[Brian Skeoch]

Sneva did the laps over 200 mph.

[GregWO]

Sneva, Man he was an entertaining driver! When did Sneva qualify over 210? month and year?

[Brian Skeoch]

Tom did it in May of 1977 in a Mclaren that Penske worked over and massaged. I believe the primary sponsor was Norton or Gould.

Tom now lives in Phoenix and has a bar at the Paradise Valley country club called the 500 club.

Jerry Sneva is a used car salesman in Indianapolis.

the 77 Mclaren / Penske is in private collection. George Walther owned it for a time but sold it a few years back.


Tom Sneva was a grade school teacher before getting the racing bug. they later called him the Gasman becuase he drove the Texaco Star car in 82 and ended up winning the race in 82. the car was a March. his crew chief was George Bignotti.

George Bignotti's son Billy is now a bouncing crew chief for some IRL teams. George Bignotti was AJ Foyts crew chief for 20 years .

fun stuff.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

shoot, the year that he did 210 mph throws me. It wasnt 77. I think he did 201 in 1977.

210 was later. I believe that was in 1982 ?

[Brian Skeoch]

scratch my previous note. I cant remember when Sneva put down a 210 average. it wasnt 77.

[GregWO]

Great info Brian. I always wonder what happens to racers when they retire... If I ever make it to Phoenix I'm gonna find that bar and shake Sneva's hand.

I remember it like yesterday I was just out of 8th grade and totally fascinated with Indy. I was totally blown away when Sneva hit 210.something. He actually did it twice, In May of ?

[Al B]

Since I added a general trivia question I guess I need to add one here as well.

Lotus competed in Formula 1 under 5 different team names.

Q. What were the team names?

Bonus Q. What years did those teams race?

There is a twist here so be careful.

[Brian Skeoch]

I will give it a shot.

Lotus factory effort 1963-68
Gold Leaf Lotus 1969 - 72
JPS team Lotus 72-73
Team Lotus factory 1975-1995

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

I think Essex was in there too at some point. late 70's early 80's ?

[Al B]

Gold Leaf Team 1968 -1971
John Player Team Lotus 1972 - 1978
Martini Team Lotus 1979
Essex Team Lotus 1980
John Player Team Lotus 1981 - 1986 (this was the trick one. JPS had a team at two seperate time periods).

Camel Team Lotus 1987 - 1990

5 teams total, 1 team twice.

[Brian Skeoch]

excellent question Al.

[Brian Skeoch]

here is a good one to keep everyone thinking.

what was John Dillingers favorite car. he stole a lot of cars durring the 30's but his favorite car was what ?

hint, it isnt the Ford flat head V 8, that was Clyde Barrow's car favorite car. what was John Dillingers favorite ride ?

he based it on comfort, speed and durability.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

this was a pretty tough question and not race car related. I will go ahead and answer it. the favorite car that Dillinger sgose was the 1933 Hudson Terraplane.

he said it blew the Ford V 8 off the road.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

who was the oldest driver to win Indy ?

[WayneB]

Al Unser Sr.?

I know Mario Andretti got a victory and was billed as the oldest indycar race winner , but I dont think it was a win at Indianappolis.

[Brian Skeoch]

correct. Al Unser, 1987 but the car was a 86 March out of the Penske stables. Mario did get a win in the 1990's but it wasnt at Indy. I think it was Phoenix where he won his last race. ?

Brian

[USAndretti42]

Gold Leaf Team 1968 -1971
John Player Team Lotus 1972 - 1978
Martini Team Lotus 1979
Essex Team Lotus 1980
John Player Team Lotus 1981 - 1986 (this was the trick one. JPS had a team at two seperate time periods).

Camel Team Lotus 1987 - 1990

5 teams total, 1 team twice.

Didn't they enter the Italian Grand Prix in 1971 with the turbine car under yet another name because of legal problems over Jochen Rindt's death the year before?

[Brian Skeoch]

who were the drivers of the turbine car in that race ?

did the turbine have torque to get off the line or around corners ? or, did it mainly run on momentum ?

Brian

[WayneB]

Problem with the turbine in a road racing car was the lack of engine braking (so they were brutal on brakes ) and the enormous amount of throttle lag they had.

I remember Graham Hill saying one had to get off the throttle well before the corners, then get right back on the throttle in order to have the turbine spooled back up again to get good acceleration out of the corner you hadn't yet arrived at!

[Autocross7]

It would be interesting to redsign a tubine car to have thrust reverse and shaft breaking like the C-130 turbine props and some helos!

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

that is awesome Wayne..

[Brian Skeoch]

what was the year where there was a victory celebration at Indy, yet after an appeal, another driver was named the winner.

name the year

drivers involved

chassis builders

for extra points, name the incident that transpired which caused the mess.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

the answer was 1981. Bobby Unser was declared winner on 10/8 , nearly 5 months after the race.

Mario Andretti finished first in the race but after appeals by Penske and Bobby unser, the ruling was changed which allowed Bobby Unser to be declared winner of the 1981 Indy 500.

Mario passed several cars during a yellow flag which put him in th lead. after video review, it was determined that Mario passed several cars under non green conditions.

the funny thing is, every tape that I have seen shows Bobby Unser doing the same thing. But, on 10/8/81 Bobby Unser was declared the winner .

Bobby was in a Penske car and Mario was in a Wildcat.

Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

name the four 4 time winners at Indy.

[Brian Skeoch]

sorry, I mean name the only 4 time winners at Indy.

[Autocross7]

Hmmmm... who am I missing?

AJ Foyt
Al Unser, Sr.
Rick Mears

I cannot think of a 4th - 4 time winner. We are talking about just the 500 correct?

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

you got them all right. good job.

your next question please.

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Michael Schumacher (4+1?)

[Autocross7]

Michael Schumacher (4+1?)

Not as per the question as I understand it. He cannot claim that he has won the Indy 500...

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

man, you could have given Michael a sleeping pill and tied one arm behind his back and he still would have won the F 1 race at Indy.

I just didnt like F 1 there.. I really hate it to see Nextel Cup cars there.

its sacred.. I dont think that place should have had F 1 or Nascar. and now that F 1 is oyt, it just makes the place seem tainted to me.

put the F 1 boys on a street course somewhere in the US and get it to mirror Monaco somehow. if thats possible.

Bernie needs to sht or get off the pot.

take the F 1 circus to Long Beach, or the Glen..

strap some ball on Bernie and let those guys race at a place like the Glen.. they dont need any stinking run off, let em rub.. if they are as good as you say they are, they will put on a nice race up there or at Long Beach.

Man, I cant stand that guy.. Tony George is also on my sht list.

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Sorry, I took the question literally, "...at Indy." no mention of "500."

[Autocross7]

Well, there you have it. I don't think most of them are THAT good. Electronic wizmo gizmos and such as they are today in F1. I think the cars do a fair amount of work that the past drivers had to do themselves. Take Clark in the day vs. Kimi today for example. "Points" to Alesi a few years back for wanting a true clutch in his car. That said, I do think there are some really good drivers in F1 and I think the DRIVERS would be more than willing to race just about anyplace allowed. It is the regulation folks etc that are mucking up the sport (and not just in F1).

As for F1 at Indy, I was for it. I just did not care for the way they came in and acted for the most part. NASCAR does not bother me either. I remember being a kid and wondering why they did not race there? But, I do not see it as a "true" NASCAR track. I am a little miffed that CHAMP car has not been allowed to race there in the past (and it is no mystery why Mr. George). Nothing will ever replace the Indy cars there for sure...

As far THE venue for each series, I vote something like this:

Nascar - Taledega
Sports Cars - Sebring
Champ Cars - Long Beach
Indy Cars - Indy
F1 - Watkins Glen.

I chose these based purly on historic relevence and nostalgia - so there are things that could be argued against for sure. But to me, these are THE venues.

As for trivia: What was the last Year for F1 at the Glenn... and What was the first Year for Indy Cars at the Glenn?


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

well said. very well said. I didnt like it when nascar went to Indy because of the history of only 1 race being held there each year and it was only the 500. the day that Nascar came, was the day when open wheel racing started to implode. Indy in 96 was a joke.. I was there tho and it was a very exciting race at the end, but the names were not there anymore. Its starting to come back because those boys and girls are not afraid to pass at 220 mph. F 1 drivers refuse to pass and when they do, Varsha makes such a big deal about it. Man, thats what they are supposed to do..

first year for modern Indy cars at the Glen was 2006 ?

last year for F 1 at the Glen was probably 1969 ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

Indy cars ran at the Glenn in 2005 with Scott Dixon taking the checker flag... a great venue for the series I might add - a I for one am glad to see some Indy car road races!

F1 raced for the last time at the Glenn in 1980 with Allan Jones (Williams team) taking the checker flag. The track could not/did not pay a rather large $800,000 ish debt to the F1 teams and the track closed for the 1981 season. Coupled with that - the infield bog and town rioting caused F1 officials to not want to invest in the track further...


Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

could F 1 go back to the Glenn ?

Brian

[Autocross7]

They would not do it. They would piss and moan about the lack of paddock and close hotels. It is not an easy place to get to with public airline schedules and even then people would have to drive from Binghampton or Rochester. It is not a problem for Indy, but remeber we are talking about te whining F1 promotors and officials....

No, F1 needs a City and a street course like Monaco (as noted above) for the USA IMO.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

oh well. I am sure Bernie has a plan to bring back F1 to the states sometime in 2012.

Brian

[TWO OLD ELANS]

I'll bet a peso F1 will be back in the States in 2009 due to pressure from Toyota and Honda. Where is the big question. THE GARAGES / PITS are definetly an important consideration as mentioned, (what an odd Expen$ive criteria for staging the most sophisticated form of motor racing on earth.) The lock step uniformity, commanded by "Barney Ecclestein" as my 82 year old F1 superfan mom calls him, will hopefully pass when he loses control.

[Brian Skeoch]

easy question here.

what names make up the name Galmer . I will give you the second part . Alan Mertsen.

what name makes up the first part of Galmer ?

Brian

[Al B]

Gal comes from Galles.

I know........my turn. Give me a bit, I'm not quite the walking library on car stuff.

[Brian Skeoch]

correct.

[USAndretti42]

strap some ball on Bernie and let those guys race at a place like the Glen.. they dont need any stinking run off, let em rub.. if they are as good as you say they are, they will put on a nice race up there or at Long Beach.

Man, I cant stand that guy.. Tony George is also on my sht list.

Can't say I agree with you, Brian. Didn't you see Robert Kubica's crash at Montreal? Would you want him dead for your amusement. Despite all the rubbish written about the drivers relying on electronic aids and not wanting to overtake ignores that the fact that the worst of them is way, way quicker than any of us with a super-competitive personality that wants to beat all the others. Add this to the fact that F1 cars are way quicker than Indy cars that sending them to Watkins Glen as it is would be a recipe for disaster.

Being a great driver does not mean you will not crash. Remember Ayrton Senna, Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt, Ronnie Petersen, Greg Moore? The last time Mario Andretti drove a single seater he ended up looping the loop through no fault of his own.

Let alone the risks of a car ending up in a spectator area.

[4re308]

Honestly, I don't know of any other track in the US besides Indy that is capable of safely accepting a Formula One race.

[WayneB]

We had a bad shunt at the Glen 5 years ago with the Titan Mk.6 FF. Our driver was punted in the rear at the exit of the bus stop, and went into the Armco barrier there backwards (which luckily was covered by polystyrene foam blocks) Even at relitively low speed the car was totalled and the driver suffered burns and a broken arm, he was lucky not to have been killed.What was left of the car was taken back in 8 trash bags, we had to hide what was left of the car from his wife and mom, or his racing days would have definately been over.

A very unforgiving track is Watkins Glen IMO.

http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/bc/Cevert_73_france_01_bc.jpg

[Autocross7]

Add this to the fact that F1 cars are way quicker than Indy cars .

....Unless something has recently changed, Indy cars are generally producing considerable more torque and power. They are also typically capable of much higher speeds than an F1 Car in current form; reaching above 200mph in most races. CHAMP cars top the list for power, weight, and speed in the "open wheel" games and the engines sometimes have to be de-tuned to run on super speedways. Ironically politics is killing the CHAMP car game and not the tracks, cars and drivers!

Most F1 suspension set ups would snap like twigs under Indy Car power in a banked curve (as we have seen in recent times the F1 suspension sometimes snaps under "normal" F1 conditions.

There are some street courses that could hold F1 and several tracks as well -IF all there was to do was show up and race. F1's issues are with wanting garages that look like something from Area 51, security that also resembles Area 51, a place for FIA officials and the like to strut around like Peacock gods, and a walk distance to the course from 5 star hotel access. THAT is hard to find outside of Indy. The Glenn IS an unforgiving track, but the lack of the above noted 5 star hotels and the fact that it is in the middle on nowhere has a lot more to do with it being a poor choice today.

I agree that the F1 driver is an agressive sort that will race to win at great risk. But I'd give you that same idea across the Indy and CHAMP car drivers as well. Perhaps even more so. I cannot recall even one person in the history of F1 that could and would "go off" in quite the same way as AJ Foyt! (Perhaps Il Commendatore - Mr. Ferrari)

Cars, drivers, and history aside... the real F1 issue is what it always is... Politics.

Cameron

[Esprit2]

A very unforgiving track is Watkins Glen IMO.
The picture of Francois sure punctuates the point.
Tim

[Brian Skeoch]

I just want to see some competitive racing with passing and racing . F 1 these days is just follow the leader. Its not like the gold old days .

now days guys are too afraid to get near the Ferrari or Mclaren to make a pass because they risk taking out the championship leader.

where is the passing and competition like we used to see 20 years ago.

the Glen would be a great place for F 1. It doesnt have the run off needed but maybe the teams would be evenly matched. ?

Brian



Brian

[Brian Skeoch]

someone ask a Trivia question please.. something difficult.

[USAndretti42]

....Unless something has recently changed, Indy cars are generally producing considerable more torque and power. They are also typically capable of much higher speeds than an F1 Car in current form; reaching above 200mph in most races. CHAMP cars top the list for power, weight, and speed in the "open wheel" games and the engines sometimes have to be de-tuned to run on super speedways. Ironically politics is killing the CHAMP car game and not the tracks, cars and drivers!

Cameron

Champ Car - 750 bhp, IRL car 650 bhp, F1 about 800 bhp. I will agree that the American series' cars have more torque, though. The thing about speed is that the F1 cars are so much quicker than the others around a road course than the Indy or Champ cars because they brake, acclerate and corner more quickly.

If you want a difficult trivia question, which former F1 driver won a goped race against his mechanics in the garages at Fontana in 1999?

[Autocross7]

Oh man... I can almost remember that! If I post the answer at 3AM you'll all know I woke up with it!

Cameron

[TWO OLD ELANS]

Eddie Cheever?

[Brian Skeoch]

Paul Tracy ? or Pat Carpintier ?

[WayneB]

Dunno, but I will guess JP Montoya?

[USAndretti42]

Wayne wins! Gannassi were supposed to be testing their CART car but the Santa Ana winds were blowing pretty hard, too hard to run 230 mph laps around the track. Jimmy Vasser was late turning up. One of the mechanics joked that he was probably dropping his latest girlfriend off at high school.

Anyway, one of the mechanics had a goped and they set up a course starting in the garage where the car was going along inside the garage block, then up between the rows of garages, doing a U-turn and back again. The mechanics had been taking it in turns for a while and going quicker and quicker. JPM came out to see what was going on. He set fastest time on his first attempt.

[Brian Skeoch]

Great great question, answer and response... I love this stuff.

[WayneB]

Wayne wins! Gannassi were supposed to be testing their CART car but the Santa Ana winds were blowing pretty hard, too hard to run 230 mph laps around the track. Jimmy Vasser was late turning up. One of the mechanics joked that he was probably dropping his latest girlfriend off at high school.

Anyway, one of the mechanics had a goped and they set up a course starting in the garage where the car was going along inside the garage block, then up between the rows of garages, doing a U-turn and back again. The mechanics had been taking it in turns for a while and going quicker and quicker. JPM came out to see what was going on. He set fastest time on his first attempt.

Have you met Juan Pablo Montoya yet in your new vocation Trevor?

[USAndretti42]

Not to speak to. I did work with him a bit in 1999, hence the story above.

[Al B]

Sorry it took a while, been a bit busy.

Question: In 1966 the first four finishers of the Monte Carlo Rally were diqualified. What were the cars and what was the reason for their disqualification?

[Brian Skeoch]

Al, your pal Andy Barron ran the Monty in a Lotus 7. I will say, a Lotus 7 was DQ'd for some crazy reason ?

Brian

[Al B]

Yes he did, but by my reckoning Andy was in high school in 66.
Try again.

Hint: information is more readily available than you might think.
The brits have the answer.

[WayneB]

The cars disqualified were all British entrys , Timo Makinen (Cooper S), Roger Clark (Lotus Cortina) Rauno Altinen (Cooper S) Paddy Hopkirk(Cooper S)

They were disqualified for using headlamps that didn't dip (high beam only)

By chucking them out, the French organisers got the Citroen win they wanted.

[Autocross7]

Ahhh politics... very similar situation to Mercedes gettinggrumpy over Mazda after the 787B wins at Le Mans...

Cameron

[USAndretti42]

Why did Colin Chapman vow never to go back to Le Mans?

[Al B]

The cars disqualified were all British entrys , Timo Makinen (Cooper S), Roger Clark (Lotus Cortina) Rauno Altinen (Cooper S) Paddy Hopkirk(Cooper S)

They were disqualified for using headlamps that didn't dip (high beam only)

By chucking them out, the French organisers got the Citroen win they wanted.

:thumbup: You da winnah! You read BBC news as well?

[WayneB]

Even though I was only 7 years old at the time, I remember the uproar in England when this happened. Living in Birmingham where the Mini's were made (where my uncle and dad and all their mates worked) only made it more inescapable!

England won the world cup though in the same year(which made the country alot happier)
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/wcup266.jpg
Colin Chapman vowed never to compete at Le-Mans again after the automobile club de l'oest deemed the 23 to be in violation of numerous "rules" in 1962. As usual they left it late so team Lotus had hardly any time to rectify the problem areas, and when they did, they came up with another farcical reason to stop them competing. Lotus had been winning the index of thermal efficiency in previous years and the French organisers wanted to make sure Lotus couldn't compete so that a French team could win.

They did a similar stunt to the Mirage team in 1982, finding the oil cooler on the M12 was 2 inches too far back in the chassis (20 minutes before the start) and when the team went back to the pit garage to alter it, they found the organisers had given another team there garage!

[GregWO]

Great bit of info Wayne!

typical French attitude even in racing... :ohmy:

[Brian Skeoch]

that is a great trivia question and answer. Man, these trivia questions are getting tough.

[WayneB]

This trivia question was supposed to go on Brians "Useless Indycar Trivia" thread but I cant find it so here it is.

What was the first rear engined car to run in the Indy 500?:huh:

[Brian Skeoch]

John Cooper's car. Climax ?

[Brian Skeoch]

there was another team in the 40's that ran at the speedway but from what I recall he didnt qualify so I think the answer is Cooper and the Climax.

1961 ?

[WayneB]

You know I always thought it was Cooper, Brian, but it wasnt.

Apparently the Tucker Torpedo Special designed by Harry Miller was (in 1947)

I found that out by accident this morning.

http://www.forix.com/8w/indy/am-ind47.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

I remember that but for some reason I dont think it qualified ? motor problems or something ?

[Brian Skeoch]

excellent question Wayne.

have another go at it.

[clockwork]

God, I messed up that answer good and proper (next time I will read the question properly)!:ohmy:

What did Graham Hill do with his share of the prize money he recieved for winning the Indy 500 in 1966?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/WayneBarr/GrahamHillIndy500.jpg

I love that Lola, probably my favourite Indy car. I saw it about 6 years ago when it had been pulled out of damp storage, engineless with a lot of rust in the frame, and very cracked paint the seller wanted $250,000 for it .:001_unsure:

Spooky, a bit of rust remover and some Simonize http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/clockwork012/P1030558.jpg sorry for the quality,mobile phone pic. Clockwork:yes: