Saleen Raptor

[WayneB]

Thought I would mention a car that was just announced that will possibly be a direct competitor of the New Esprit when it eventually makes an appearance..

Saleen got ASC creative services to design up this car with the possibility that they will be putting it into production in the next two years.

Projected price is $185k, and its powered by a supercharged 5 litre Ford V8.

http://motoring.sky.com/siteimages/storage/200832014/saleen_raptor_1.jpg

http://motoring.sky.com/siteimages/storage/200832014/saleen_raptor_2.jpg

[Kylie]

I like it a lot, esp the rear lights, awesome!

[mario]

I like it a lot, esp the rear lights, awesome!

Quote the rear lights are great,different and originals:mf_dribble:

[GregWO]

Nice car... Won't be in my garage:crying: but I like it lots:thumbup:

[Autocross7]

Okay, I will be the one to be different... I think front is on the average side of okay. The head lamps are lacking in asthetic appeal and the main intake looks a bit Evo stuck on Ferrari kit car. And the rear... now this IS my opinion remember... is on the down side of unattractive. I am so over the whole LED look. I never liked it, and when it goes beyond the little round clusters it just turns me off so to speak.

This car reminds me of the Styx video Mr. Roboto. It is trying very hard to look future form, but somehow pulls off more of what B sci fi movies did to make things look as if they were from the future in 1982. I think Lotus is ahead in the "looks" department if the recent spy photos are any indication of the general direction Lotus seems to be taking. I could find many many things I'd rather spend 185K on (if I had it). The S7 is so much more to look at...

Cameron

[eurosport]

:sleep1: -1 :thumbdown: sounds like a re-clothed Ford GT, also -1 :thumbdown: on the LED's, if they're going to put that many on the rear, they may as well make them active! Anyone remember the turn signals on the '60s Cougar? :D

eric

[WayneB]

It doesnt set me on fire, but I dont find it anywheres near as bad as a Noble.

Especially interested to see the rear "haunches" which strongly resemble the Proton PM5 model we have seen on here.

Didnt think the light clusters are too bad either, the rear has elements of the Honda NSX which of course was a Corvette Indy copy, and most importantly have no resemblence to Ferrari units.

I dont think most people realise the enormous cost of tooling up for modern vehicle lighting, some of the domestic manufacturers spend in the region of 2 to 4 million dollars to r+d and tool for lighting, which for a small low volume company can be crippling!

[Brian Skeoch]

I dont like it.

[WayneB]

Heres a rendering of the car in dk.blue, looks much nicer than the yellow.

http://motoring.sky.com/siteimages/storage/200832014/saleen_raptor_3.jpg

[Brian Skeoch]

that looks better.

the S 7 to me is still one of the best looking cars ever built. Hell, I still like the mid 90's verson of the Saleen Mustang.. all white.. or, all yellow ..

the S7 in silver looked great.

[Martin]

I think overall it looks good enough but it isn't amazing by any means. I do think it is clever that Saleen is finally getting into the "cheaper" market by their standards.

[Brian Skeoch]

and Steve Saleen is no longer sheriff at Saleen which is a shame.

[GregWO]

Yes, The S7 is the best looking American sports car. The dark blue raptor view looks pretty good to me. I'll take one in that color :thumbup:

[eurosport]

I dont think most people realise the enormous cost of tooling up for modern vehicle lighting, some of the domestic manufacturers spend in the region of 2 to 4 million dollars to r+d and tool for lighting, which for a small low volume company can be crippling!

Yes! Let's bring back parts-bin lighting! :yes:

Eric
'77 S1 with Fiat X1/9 rear tail-lights :D

[WayneB]

Nothing wrong with parts bin lighting as long as you choose the right bin!:yes:

I would think a small low volume company like Lotus would find the cost of current lighting cripplingly expensive.

[BCST]

Its nice but I think it has several different car influences. Such as the Gallardo and I even feel the nose of the Elise is some aspects. Or how that could of been a future nose of the next generation elise.

[Kimbers]

Nice to see I'm not the only one under-impressed.

It's all been done before, nothing different from several other cars out there.......BLEH!

How do they think it will compete with the new Esprit? It's twice as much money!

[proracer]

Sorry, I do not like the Raptor.:no:

Anyone have a photo of the new Esprit?

Jim

[WayneB]

The only reason I really posted it was to try and create a bit of new Esprit chat (which has been quiet lateley), as there isnt much chance of any news from Lotus as they are commited to the Eagle project ATM.

I don't think that car is as bad as most of us are making out, I would like to see one in person to see how the shape translates in the real world.

[GregWO]

I like it, Wayne. I have always like the products that Steve Saleen creates. Its a shame he is out of it now. The S7 is by far his best work, though. :icon15:

[Martin]

Personally I think it is great that they have managed to keep such a tight lid on it. Sure, I would like to see what it looks like, but I like the surprise of...here it is, when it's presented by the automaker themselves. The way it used to be.

[BCST]

It will be great when the zebra car spy shots show up of the Esprit in a year or year and a half. that will be great excitment indeed. Everyone will be talking about it.

[WayneB]

The new Esprit hype has been going on for at least 3 long years, mean while some great new cars in its class have been released.(Audi A8, Ferrari 430, Aston Martin Vantage)

I know its been tough for Lotus and Mike Kimberley had his reasons for postponing the launch, but I feel alot of momentum that built up has been lost and I'm personally kinda at the point wheres I am getting past caring.

The new Eagle is all well and good, but its a more practical car so I feel undoubtedly some of the aesthetic will be lost because of that aspect.

The Esprit was Lotuses true exotic, the kind of car schoolboys (young and old) dream about and lust after, the company has lost image and prestige by its 5 year absence.

In another couple of years there will be even more (tough) competition for the car and will it be really earth shattering enough to make alot of people a believer?:huh:

Saleen may/maynot be producing the Raptor, but at least they are having a go and giving us something tangable to look at and comment on, whilst Lotus meanwhile give us nothing (Esprit wise).


Cue Tony Kimberley......................................... ..........................

[Kimbers]

BLEH!

It's not the current managements fault that the previous managemnet chose to hype it whilst it was too far away. You may have noticed that for the last year it's all been Eagle. Lotus will start to talk about the Esprit when they are about a year off. Build momentum again maybe.

The trouble here is that the govt have all turned into Tree Huggers. Any plans performance car makers have are all having to be changed, quickly. At the last Budget announcements our insane Govt have attempted to destroy the British Car industry in one foul swoop! (this will also effect the new Esprit)

The British car industry, for the last few years, consists of high performance, low production numbers, mid to higher cost, vehicles. The likes of Rolls, Aston Martin, Lotus, Noble to name but a few.

We now have a govt that has decided that any car over 230g/km (thats all of the above) will have an additional "Showroom Tax" of £960 in the first year. The Annual Road Fund Licence will then be £450 a year. There are plans, already announced, to double these figures in 2 years time.

They have also substantially reduced tax reclaims on companies that buy cars that produce over 160g/km. Making it hugely expensive to run anything over this figure, for a company.

So not only have they killed the luxury company car market over night, but they are trying to kill whats left of the British Motor industry.:mad:

Add to that the "Congestion charge" for driving a car over 200g/km in london, of £25 a day...yes a day...plans announced in the budget to charge any cars travelling on busy roads and at busy times 84pence a mile on top of everything else! Hell! Even rural Norwich (with a population of 250,000) is bringing in Congestion charges in the city limits of £5 a day. Just to drive there!

RIP Britain.

[WayneB]

Tony , the British government have traditionally made things difficult for home based industries and the fact is that companies have to be resorcefull and find ways around it to survive (as you know).

My theory is the pr*cks in Whitehall havent recieved big enough under the table support from the British Motor Industry so are making them pay for it.

Lotus is a company which has endured many of such difficulties in the past, so why would you think the future is supposed to be any different?

Customers dont want to hear all the negative stuff (do you ever hear anything of that nature coming out of Porsche ?), they just want to look forwards to seeing some exciting and innovative product.

The cost of rolling out a nice Esprit styling mock-up would be relitively little and would create a hell of alot of publicity and excitement.

I can still remember the stir the original Esprit concept made in the early 70's, are you telling me the company is in worse shape than it was back then?:huh:

http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Lotus_Esprit_Ital_Stand_1972_Thum.jpg

[Autocross7]

Tony , the British government have traditionally made things difficult for home based industries and the fact is that companies have to be resorcefull and find ways around it to survive (as you know).

My theory is the pr*cks in Whitehall havent recieved big enough under the table support from the British Motor Industry so are making them pay for it.

Lotus is a company which has endured many of such difficulties in the past, so why would you think the future is supposed to be any different?

Customers dont want to hear all the negative stuff (do you ever hear anything of that nature coming out of Porsche ?), they just want to look forwards to seeing some exciting and innovative product.

The cost of rolling out a nice Esprit styling mock-up would be relitively little and would create a hell of alot of publicity and excitement.

I can still remember the stir the original Esprit concept made in the early 70's, are you telling me the company is in worse shape than it was back then?:huh:

http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Lotus_Esprit_Ital_Stand_1972_Thum.jpg


You make a good point... pehaps Lotus should re locate to Germany as Ford did to Mexico. Porsche works in a car friendly environment where manufacturing is not a crime as it appears to be in the USA and Britan. The Eagle will be good for Lotus! I cannot wait to see it. As for the Esprit, Kimbers calls is right I think - the former management was not headed in the proper direction and corrective action takes a while.The point you really make that is so true is that Lotus has to market the car the right way. I harp on this, but if they market it right they will do well - and Like Jackie Stewart Lotus may need to market from Switzerland!

Cameron

[Kimbers]

No Wayne. They are in a better state, profit wise, but investment in a new model takes alot of money. I'm not privvy to how much but I'm sure the Eagle alone must be in the Hundreds of Millions. The Esprit, after having money pumped into a "non Lotus" design, may exceed that.

To fully develop 2 cars at once would be cash flow suicide. As they say in Business, cash flow is king.

As it happens, i think they have done the right thing. Have you seen the new Eagle yet? Nope! Do you know how many deposits dealers have already taken? I know it's a lot.

Delaying the Esprit model made sense when you consider that the Eagle should sell double the numbers for the same investment. It also makes sense to have the flagship come out last. Work your way up the ladder so to speak.

[WayneB]

errr yes I know it takes more than a few quid to design and develop a new car Tony!:ohmy:

What I am getting at is we (the public) havent heard much on the Esprit front for longer than a while and it would be nice If your dad and Co. at Lotus would throw us a bone once in a while as to the progress on said car (If it is still going ahead).

Alot of people got quite excited about the comming of the new Esprit (2 years ago) only to be totally deflated by the projects postponement.(me included)

No, I havent seen the Eagle yet (as you know) nor do I know the amount of deposits taken, but I hope its as many as you think.:)

[eurosport]

I think the bones will start being thrown once the Eagle (Ethos??) is off and running. We begged for years for a federal Elise before we began to get on again/off again teasings before ultimate appearance. Now, there are about as many federal Elise/Exige variants running around as half of all the Esprit production. I think I had a LEF post a couple of years ago bemoaning the advancing competition for a new MES, and the competition continues to mount and the bar continues to be raised while we wait. That's my main frustration and fear that it might not measure up when it finally is out. That's kind of why the Exige sales numbers seem to slowly dwindle as we can only support so many cars now in the Carrera 4/Z06/Viper (almost) price range even though power and performance have advanced along with their price.

Cheers!
Eric

[Kimbers]

Sorry Wayne. I sounded patronising after re-reading my post. I t wasn't meant that way.

It was more for non industry people as I know you have been involved in the industry for some time.

Believe me bones will be thrown after the Eagle comes out. Don't forget they use the same architecture and alot of the rough edges will have been smoothed out over the production of the Eagle.

[Autocross7]

The biggest race Lotus has to contend with currently is the dumb arsed "American Gubment" and the insistance that the US dollar be made to drop even further. In reality what this means for Lotus is that delays and production corrections (needed but costly) for the Esprit is driving the price up above what many Americans can pay. Our economy is in the tank and no amount of rehtoric can change that. People here are bustin' it at the job and bring home buying power is near an all time low despite what the politicos want to put on the news at night. The election (impending liberal doom) is not going to help things in the short run. So, Lotus needs to come out with the "Eagle" first AND at a price point people can pay. As is stands, they may not be able to meet that price point with the Eagle if it aint' out soon:crying:...?

With any luck the Esprit will appear in a couple years (wich sucks, but could be better) when the economy here is back on a more even keel. That said, I'll also say that the new Esprit better be damn impressive - built for drivers not riders - or the backlash will destroy the company bank account. The more waiting by the would be buyers means the higher the expectations will be for the car to be awsome. Like a Star Wars prequel, even fans will be disapointed because the expectation could grow beyond realistic...



Cameron

[mario]

The new Esprit hype has been going on for at least 3 long years, mean while some great new cars in its class have been released.(Audi A8, Ferrari 430, Aston Martin Vantage)

I know its been tough for Lotus and Mike Kimberley had his reasons for postponing the launch, but I feel alot of momentum that built up has been lost and I'm personally kinda at the point wheres I am getting past caring.

The new Eagle is all well and good, but its a more practical car so I feel undoubtedly some of the aesthetic will be lost because of that aspect.

The Esprit was Lotuses true exotic, the kind of car schoolboys (young and old) dream about and lust after, the company has lost image and prestige by its 5 year absence.

In another couple of years there will be even more (tough) competition for the car and will it be really earth shattering enough to make alot of people a believer?:huh:

Saleen may/maynot be producing the Raptor, but at least they are having a go and giving us something tangable to look at and comment on, whilst Lotus meanwhile give us nothing (Esprit wise).


Cue Tony Kimberley......................................... ..........................

I don't want to see the new Esprit first they release it.... especially if its looks amazing.......I remember the M250 and today when I see the pics of that model I am worried:no:

[Martin]

Are you saying that even if it looks amazing, you still don't want to see it? :huh:

Non Capisco.

[WayneB]

I think Martin, Mario is concerned that If Lotus were to realease photos of the design for the new Esprit, then for one reason or another didnt go into production with it (like the M250) , he would be upset and dissapointed (as would we all), so its better just to have the big sudden unveiling of the actual production version.

Me I would love to see the styling direction Lotus are taking wth the Esprit concept ASAP.


Flashback to Geneva 2000..............

http://archive.cardesignnews.com/events/geneva2000/gallery/images/lotus-m250-497.jpg

[mario]

Exactly Wayne! Hai capito benissimo il mio pensiero:yes:

[Autocross7]

Man... what a pretty car that was. I could not agre more with you guys after remembering how disappointed I was after that car did notcome to pass as a production car...

On another note... they should build it now! I know it would be a bit costly, but factor in how much work was/has been already done on the M250 and that has to count for something? It is not like we don't all (well, almost all) think it was a great looking car?

Cameron

[WayneB]

No it (the M250) definately is a great looking car IMO and I wished the Elise/Exige had emulated its total styling and looked alot more like it.

I never really understood the reasoning behind its demise, I have read that it didnt comply with global auto regulations, but I cant imagine that was the real reason as the Elise is a similar car and they sell that worldwide, maybe the company just didnt have the money to put it into full production?