Lotus project car....the kind that really needs some work.

[Martin]

Just curious, how many of you have taken on a real basket case of a Lotus? Would you ever do it again, and what did you learn that you were not expecting too?
I have not done so.....yet. Eventually I would like to take on an old 7 if the opportunity arises.

[Autocross7]

Nope... Austin Healey but never a Lotus. i cannot imajin that a 7 would be horrible provided that you are willing to take time to sort it. some parts might need fabbing from scratch but te motor should be a straight machine shop job?... IMO having the proper facility is the battle. I don't and my progrss is way way slow because of the environment I have to work on my Healey. it is not good... open car port where all of the heat can get to you... I want a real shop like the guys on Power Block. Couple hundred sqr feet and lifts etc... ahhhhh the dream....

So, I would not be afraid of a 7 as there is so much available help. I would be afraid of poor facilities to do the work.

Cameron

[Brian Skeoch]

great question Martin.

[andydclements]

I guess my Turbo esprit was a basket case, and I took the wrong approach to restoring it.

It was running when I first looked at it, but wouldn't rev past 3k, had a broken spring, the clutch wouldn't disengage, the paint was really bad, the interior had several different shades of grey carpet, ripped seats, scratched leather.

I re-trimmed the interior, the paint was sprayed between the point I first viewed it and me buying it (somebody else took it on then sold it on again in a moment of sanity), stripped the engine and re-built it, replaced the dampers and repaired the braking system, got the clutch working.

Now 2 years later, I've completely refurbed the suspension (new bushes, joints, etc), replaced the braking system, refurbed the gearbox and replaced the clutch, replaced every bit of the steering system. Still bits to do, but it's getting there.

I should have taken the body off and worked on the rolling subframe then started putting it back together, that would have been so much simpler.

Andy

[Kylie]

The 89 Turbo that I bought was almost a basket case. The chassis was straight and engine had good compression and was at least running was the only reason I bought it. But this was bought as a project to really make it smile again with no regrets. :yes:

OK were do I start: All the electrics were shot, electrical shorts, saggy suspension, turbo housing blew out, running too rich carbs needed complete over hauling with all new everything, radiator fans and cowling cracked and broken in parts, radiator clogged up, tyres hard, major fibre glass cracking/crazing all over the car. Some very deep scary cracks. All four corners had been bumped into. Lights had cracks or broken. The gear box seals leaking, all hoses were perished and making some nice fountains in the car :yes:, sagging lights rusty parts, sad cow horn, window motors, mast/slave cylinders, clutch cables and mechanism, side mirrors, brake disks, wheels, calipers, fuel lines, interior and even the alarm was shot as well. So yeah was a real labour of love.

The rewarding part when all done was turning up to Lotus meets and get a gathering around the car saying what a fantastic looking car and a great job getting it looking a million bucks again. That makes it really worth while, oh yeah and when the new PO says a smart looking car that seals it.

My current car it not so bad at all just needs a really good clean up. :thumbup:

[RoadDad]

Martin,

I assume that by "basket case" you are talking about a vehicle condition grade of 6 or maybe 5. (1. Excellent; 2. Fine; 3. Very Good; 4. Good; 5. Restorable; 6. Parts Vehicle. I can give you the detail of each class if you want them.)

Keep in mind that the cost of restoring is always much more than you originally think, plan for or are informed it will be. It is very easy to sink tons of money into restoration jobs and you never get back what you put into it. So you need to be prepared to lose x amount of dollars when/if you sell. If the loss is equal to or less than the amount of fun you've had with the vehicle, you won. If the loss is more than the fun, don't start. I have recently passed on two low grade 5 Cortinas because of the amount of repair I could see was far too much. I always have estimated my repair cost then doubled it to get a better sense of how much I will put into the car to begin with. It has always gone higher than that.

I have an acquaintance who restored a "basket case" '61 Elite. He spent over $100,000 all told in restoration (after purchasing the car) in the late '90s/early 2000. His car now is worth about $80K max.

Also, the time involved, at least for me is always more than double what I thought. I don't work slowly when I work, just carefully.

Having said all of that, I personally wouldn't take a "basket case" grade 5 anything and try to restore it to anything above a class 4 or 3 car ("a good or very good driver"). I limit any restoration attempts to two grades over what I initally see. Meaning a Grade 3 car can be made into a Grade 1. A grade 5 car can be made into a grade 3. I have been burnt before trying to jump up two grades. One can be done fairly reasonably. Two often gets really expensive. Jay Leno may do a three or four grade jump for all I know, but he makes a little more money than I do.

I will never touch an entire grade 6 -- just parts of it :D (except a Ferrari 166MM -- I'd take the whole thing happily).

There are always exceptions to everything and having made a profit of a little over $20K on a single "restoration" in the past, I can say sometimes it is worth it. BTW, that will never happen to me again.

[Mark B.]

Kylie,
That's a lot of things wrong with your old Esprit. Sounds like a combination of old age and possibly the car was ragged by the previous Owner.
I've got the sagging springs on the front and the window motors, both old age, which I'm looking to fix soon.

[Kimbers]

Well I thought mine was ok, But in the last 9 months I've done the following work (well, when I say I've I mean someone I've paid...as me and tools just don't go together....no hang on I tightened up a rear panel that had come loose and fitted a new battery).

- New Chargecooler impeller
- New O2 sensor
- Replaced all belts
- Replaced Cotton Reel mounts to Chargecooler
- Replaced Cam Cover top Gaskets
- Replaced bolts on Engine mounts
- Replaced Power steering Pump Bracket and realign pulley
- New Clutch Slave Cylinder
- New Alternator
- New HT Leads and Plugs
- New Idle Speed Control valve
- Repaired Back pressure Valve Actuator
- New rear wheel bearings
- New Vacuum Pipes
- Recon Starter Motor
- New Brake Discs
- New Brake Calipers and pads
- Realigned all the coolant and AC hoses
- Refitted fuse box (bracket had snapped)
- 2 new rear lights
- 2 new front sidelights
- New Alarm Immobiliser.

I now have to fit a new Exhaust and then I suppose something else will require doing!! Phew, quite a list!

Here's a piccy of Andy Clements Esprit, it's the blue G Car, this weekend at a charity fund raiser we did together (yes it was wet).
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p259/Kimbers34/hethersett4.jpg

[bdboyle]

Just curious, how many of you have taken on a real basket case of a Lotus? Would you ever do it again, and what did you learn that you were not expecting too?
I have not done so.....yet. Eventually I would like to take on an old 7 if the opportunity arises.

Do you really want to know?

Check out the 693R Resto Journal on http://www.lotuseuropa.us home page.
And the photo album for the same VIN.

Sold to me as a 'runner'. Planned on doing a rolling restoration.

Yeah, right.

Frame off, here we go (or went...).

Goes into paint next week.

Have another one (on the home page as 65/2678) waiting in the wings.

This one is even further gone. Engine seized. Frame rusty. Interior trashed.
Body looks like a PO painted it with a paint roller (paint layer measured at 15 mils...) Doors split. Windshield falling out of the gasket.

But, it's mine. And the 7th Lotus I've owned. (yes, if I skin my knuckles, the blood comes out yellow and green...:))

BB
693R (started out a 5, ending up a 2...comin on the end of the resto saga...)
65/2678 (haven't even started)
http://www.lotuseuropa.us

[Autocross7]

Looking at Kimber's list makes me realize how some ofthis stuff will creep up on you in a runner without really knowing it (but then I do not want to know either... the wife might find out!). I am currently waiting on some ignition system parts as Saturday the pickup coil decided to die out of the blue with no warning. But also over the past few years, I have replced several of the items on Kimber's list as well as some other niggly stuff. when I look at the books the total cost was much higher than I would have guessed. It was just spread out over time.

I tend to agree with the idea that you should not try to jump much more the 2 grades unless you have some of that entertainment industry unlimited funding... but back to my comments... wounld'nt you love to have Jay Lenno's garage space to do your work?!!!

Cameron

[GregWO]

I thought I was getting a decent 88, but its just as expensive to replace all the stuff that dry rotted from sitting. I think I've topped $6k so far and I still have more stuff to freshen or replace. :crying:

Love Leno's garage! Its the mecca of vintage cars and he drives each and every one! Jay Leno's Garage.com/ (http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/)

[Autocross7]

There a lot of folks that think that by not driving a car they are 'preserving it'. It could not be further from the truth... I see this a lot in Ferrari circles. Miles driven really does not add up to much when compared with records and upkeep. I would rather buy a 60K car with records than a 12K car with little of nothing done. the older the car, the higher the miles should be within reason. One guy that was looking at the Ferari 308 we are trying to find a home for passed for a 12K car. The one I have is a 50K car (almost) and runs like the wind. I'd drive it accross the state no worries... the cars are from the same year.

Anyway, the guy has already sunk 10K plus into his low miles car as the belts were stiff, hoses were dry, gaskets leaked the first 200 miles of driving... etc..etc..etc... Let it sit and it will slowly die.

Cameron

[GregWO]

Let it sit and it will slowly die.

Couldn't agree with you more, Cameron. I tried and tried to convince my father to get his Healey running again. He said he is preserving....But 30 years later after he parked it.... I shudder at the cost to bring her back to life...
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/gwilhelm/Austin%20Healey/DSCN0694.jpg
The Healey was near perfect when parked, just needed a brake job and some minor attention to the drivers floorpan.... :crying:

[WayneB]

Bought my low km. Turbo Esprit for $15k seven years ago, and spent another $10k on parts alone to bring it up to my standard where everything worked properly and it looks terrific.

I did everything myself and the labour would have been at least $20k if I were to bill myself for all the work .

So I now own a $45,000 1983 Turbo Esprit.:001_unsure:

On the positive side all the money spent and the hours worked prevented me from heavy drinking and womanising.:flowers:

[Autocross7]

Yes, my Healey is/was the same way. Floor pans, paint, brakes... now after sitting in a barn (litteraly) for a decade I am doing a "frame off" (is it a frame off when it is mono construction?). Some of it is my fault however... I drove it in collage and then life happened. Dad really did not put anything into after my collage years, but I could have gotten it at any point. I just did not have the time, money, or tools after collage to restore it... My goal is to have it back running and sorted in about 3 years time. :huh:

Cameron

[WayneB]

A friend of mine reciently sold a Healey 3000 completley dissasembled for 15k.(he bought an Etype FHC to restore instead)

Restored 3000's are worth 65k to over 100k.:)

I know of one in Toronto that was "restored" at one of the big shops (and is the subject of a lawsuit) which was billed out at 125k.:crying:

[GregWO]

Yeah the money they fetch is pretty unreal. My brother knows this and is trying to steal it out from under me... he thinks he can get good money for it in its unrestored unmolested 2nd owner condition. Which might be true but, he'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands....:mad:

[Kylie]

Kylie,
That's a lot of things wrong with your old Esprit. Sounds like a combination of old age and possibly the car was ragged by the previous Owner.
I've got the sagging springs on the front and the window motors, both old age, which I'm looking to fix soon.


Honestly we knew what were sort of in for and the PO was really sad he didnt have the time to fix it up, so he was happy we had good intentions. At that particular time it was the model and colour I was after and the price seemed reasonable. When we got it properly inspected by an independant he highlighted some of the majors to us. So it was always going to be a project to complete over a few years or as funds allowed :) I think in all fairness I have learnt alot about the car in trouble shooting and makes me feel good when I can help others. (or try to anyway)

Despite its issues and days where you feel putting a hammer through one of the panels in sheer frustration, not once did I feel like I had to put it up for sale.

[Tony K]

My white Esprit S1 is a project car, and I have done extensive work on several other S1s and S2s. I'll add just one opinion for now. I would characterize a lot of aspects of working on early Esprits by these two things:

1) It is incredibly simple, but

2) The parts don't fit like on German cars; you have to position or finesse a lot of things when you assemble it, and the more time and care you give to this, the tidier the completed car is.

In other words, you can slap an early Esprit together quickly, or you can put it together carefully. Putting it together carefully will take a LOT longer than just slapping it together. The carefully put together car will be a real gem, both in appearance and reliability (by Lotus standards); I don't know what to say about the others.

:steeringwheel: